OT - An Egyptian Peace Sign (Hopefully)

Comments

Soniclight wrote on 1/31/2011, 4:57 PM
Jay,

You said "Just the same, I have an obligation to make folks aware that the truth is out there (gee, sounds like The X-Files), when the topic arises. Some are seeking for the truth, other could care less. I respect that, too."

Allow me to tread lightly yet honestly in response:

I understand that to "preach the Gospel" is part of certain Christian denominations and as long as it is done with respect and lack of any sense of spiritual superiority ("you not a child of God and are lost, I am and am not lost"), I'm all for it.

But unfortunately for some, there is no real "tactical' difference between taking that to its ultimate goal and that of extremist Muslim views -- that the world must become a Califate (everyone must convert to Islam). In Christian terms, the entire globe must become Christian, or else.

There is a small problem with that...

Other religions that have been around for as long and longer than the three Abrahamic ones. Why would God create them -- S/He must have since...

... they are also committed to living a virtuous life, charity, honor, honesty, kindness, compassion -- and yes, even 'salvation' (it's called enlightenment and other similar terms) only to have them all be converted later by either Christianity or Islam?

Have you read any of the Buddhist Sutras?
If you think the 10 Commandments are already tough medicine, try a Sutra or two.

---------------------

All that said, as Bob warned early on in this thread, discussions on politics or religion are in a sense futile for they will ultimately go nowhere in terms of changing one's core perceptions. Be it yours, mine or that of anyone else following this discussion.

The best we can do is share our views, our beliefs without trying to convince or even insinuate that others change theirs. And ironically, one could almost wish that one would apply the aforementioned original meaning of the millennia old Sanskrit greeting...

Namasté - "The Divine in me salutes the Divine in you." Whether clothed as..

...a Christian, an agnostic, a Buddhist, an atheist, a Jew, a Muslim or as any other human being on this planet. The Divine cannot be absent anywhere since the Divine is infinite and omnipresent everywhere, and hence must be present in everyone in some way.

And since that is true, how can any aspect of Divinity that is everywhere be "lost"? The mystical traditions of Christianity understand that and refer to that part in all as the Christos within all, Jesus called it the "kingdom of God is within." He didn't say "it will ."be within, he said "is within." That infinite, never lost, never not-been aspect of the Divine.

Even one nano-micro-quark of infinity is still... infinite.

Now, it is obvious to anyone that it can be at the very least obscured by all the human faults and atrocities -- that is what the ancient Buddhist and other teaching refer to as "illusion" or "maya." We are all living in an illusion of seeming separation from the Divine/Source/Truth.

But even simple logic shows that must be ultimately impossible. That which is omnipresent and infinite cannot be separated from Him or Herself. Be it as a nano-micro-quark buried way deep inside even the most heinous among us.

At some point, that part is going to wake up.
How long that takes is part of the whole ongoing mystery...

________________

Well, OK, fine, maybe I am trying to perhaps suggest or hint at a wider canvas of perceptions. But as you are entitled to your views, so am I :o)

Once again, the mundane bottom line for me is the above already quoted Golden Rule in all three Abrahamic traditions and all its variations around the world. One could also add as Mark Twain, the Dalai Lama and the Metta (Loving Kindness) Sutra put it...

"Kindness is the language which the deaf can hear and the blind can see." ~ Mark Twain~ Metta Sutra

All the rest is just commentary.
Including everything I've written at this thread.
ushere wrote on 1/31/2011, 5:00 PM
i always liked the british graffitti that read:

jesus saves

moses invests

beckham scores

obviously this was pre mohammedanism....
Soniclight wrote on 1/31/2011, 6:05 PM
Bob,

I've pretty much exhausted my scribal impulses on all this stuff in response to a couple of other members which you can choose to read or not.
I also resonate and "get" where you are coming from as described by you.

So pardon my not responding in more detail to your thoughts for I need to pull back from all my long winded, mega-pontificating here (well, at least that's the current sincere intention :o)

All the best,
NRN.

~ Philip
Rory Cooper wrote on 1/31/2011, 10:22 PM
Jay I appreciate your comments and agree with most of them but to say that I am disillusioned with the system is an understatement
Disillusioned is apt as in relation to not being tricked by the illusion.

When police in a community find dead bodies connected to a pattern they realize that a serial killer is on the loose
And with speed it is vital to get that individual off the streets and straight into politics and religion where they can now freely mass murder
Hundreds of thousands and instead of a criminal record we honor them in history books as conquerors with titles like emperor, king, queen, president, pope, ‘THE GREAT” put crowns on their heads made of gold and stand on street corners and wave in awe as they drive by in their gold carriages and limousines and on white horses as they razzle dazzle us.

In contrast the example displayed by Jesus Christ was exactly the opposite. I would most willingly subject myself to his authority and Kingdom

People are so disillusioned with the political system in England that they are abusing the trashcans by hurling them at Charles and Camilla
ushere wrote on 1/31/2011, 11:03 PM
sorry, just couldn't resist -

In contrast the example displayed by Jesus Christ was exactly the opposite. I would most willingly subject myself to his authority and Kingdom

as interpreted by the inquisition?

doesn't really matter how benign / peace loving / charitable it is you follow, it's usually the followers who do the killing.
FilmingPhotoGuy wrote on 2/1/2011, 12:07 AM
To kill lots of people efficiently and effectively use religion and politics. During the wars British and allied Catholics killed German Catholics. The Pope, cardinals and bishops on each side blessed troops to go and kill in the name of god. German Catholics offered their church bells to be melted down for the war machine. Hey, just listen to Black Sabbath' song "War Pigs".

Conservative estimation of deaths:
1st world war 10 million
2nd world war 55 million
Since these two wars 150 million lives lost in wars.

The Bible books of Daniel and Revelation mentions the last and 8th king that "speaks" like a lamb but "acts" as a dragon.

1) Egypt
2) Assyria
3) Babylon
4) Medes and Persians
5) Greeks
6) Romans
7) Anglo American
8) United Nations

Soon all false religion will be destroyed by the very same political elements who have committed fornication with religion.

You'd think with all these religions we would have peace. But no one kills with more fervour than religious fanatics.
Rory Cooper wrote on 2/1/2011, 1:27 AM
Exactly my point Leslie, Ever seen a ricinulei spawn a butterfly?

No matter how much the inquisition tried to conceal their true identity, any claim to be Christian was a lie.
Scorpions follow scorpions and the sheep follow the Shepherd
Soniclight wrote on 2/11/2011, 7:32 PM


Well, I couldn't resist adding one more posting here considering what happened in Egypt within the last 12 hours.
No comment or reply needed. This is more just an FYI.

An architect in Cairo in the midst of it who had helped me with the correct Arabic for the "Selmeya" chant often used by protesters over the last 18 days shared the video below. It was shot in Tahrir Square right after the announcement that Mubarak had stepped down.

At least watch the first couple of minutes - it's a joy to see.
No translation needed.

He had "friended" me a few days ago for I had been somewhat active at some of the Facebook pages that were part of the backbone of this rather stunning turn of events. The closing image is among those I had created last week -- it speaks for itself in this regard:the power of social media these days. Facebook played a pivotal part.

As with all the images I created over the protests, I shared them with the very FB pages that were part of this. I feel honored to have played a tiny, tiny role in it.
One Egyptian even turned my "Egyptian Peace Flag" into his profile picture or avatar...





(Yup, I missed the spacing typo, but it had already been posted and shared :o)
ushere wrote on 2/11/2011, 8:01 PM
hey soniclight, now look what you've gone and done!!!!

have you thought about syria, iran, saudia arabia..... ;-)
craftech wrote on 2/11/2011, 9:25 PM
It must be intellectually challenging to live in a country where Al Jazeera is banned and there is extremely limited access to even the BBC.

Oh Wait.......................I already do.

John
Soniclight wrote on 2/11/2011, 9:58 PM
ushere

hey soniclight, now look what you've gone and done!!!!

Well, I'm not grandiose by nature, but maybe it's time I become so - lol.

craftech

It must be intellectually challenging to live in a country where Al Jazeera is banned and there is extremely limited access to even the BBC.

Where do you live--Sudan, Uganda, Syria or... ? :o)
ushere wrote on 2/11/2011, 10:04 PM
craftech - you can't get al jazeera i the states!?

i'm jewish and i watch it for a balanced view of israel!!!!
Soniclight wrote on 2/11/2011, 10:16 PM
FYI for craftech and all those in any American or other gulag in which there is a media blackout...

I live just north of Los Angeles, California and I've been watching Aljazeera live for free through their Facebook page, but one can do so at AJ's site too (Aljazeera - Live Stream). Who needs cable these days, anyway? - lol.

Oh, yeah, the BBC also has a website - a freakin' huge one at that :o)

ushere

i'm jewish and i watch it for a balanced view of israel!!!!
LOL
craftech wrote on 2/12/2011, 4:53 AM
One of the two links I presented above is a letter to one's local cable company demanding it, but it won't work. I watch it online, but there is no good reason that with so many empty cable channels, they won't allow it to have access. If you watch the corporate cable news channels they are mostly using Al Jazeera's Egypt footage and not giving them credit for it. The Al Jazeera logo is sometimes shown, but they remove Al Jazeera's name that belongs under it. I noticed that on an MSNBC broadcast the other day. Most of the time they don't even show the logo. They just use their footage without crediting them with it.

The problem is described on their website and also in Wikipedia in referenced detail. In there they detail just how bad the problem is including the bombings of their offices, etc during the Bush Administration that began the demonizing that the American media happily went along with.

There are still people in the US literally (I know many of them personally) afraid to go to the website because they think they will be targeted by the State Department for doing it. It's ridiculous, but without even reading anything there the media in the US has them convinced since the Bush years that Al Jazeera aids and abets terrorists. I tell people to go to the website and watch some of their interviews and read some of their articles, but they won't do it. They think they will be surveilled if they do.

Moreover, unlike years ago when there was only an hour or two of news on network TV there is very little International news reporting despite the 24 hour cable channels and all the additional network news programs. Thus the limited access for the BBC. Most of what passes for "news" is he said, she said and endless discussions devoid of substance. They convince people that the content is ratings driven. I don't buy it. That would imply that Americans want to be dumbed down by the 5 corporations that control it all. The ratings are ratings of the scope of what the media presents to them, not a desire to see something with more substance or not to. An FCC ruling at the end of the Bush Administration (that the media didn't report largely) allows those 5 corporations to buy up all the newspapers in the country. Many of them already have.

And after the corporate news media helped scare the public into believing that Net Neutrality was bad for them, the Obama administration's FCC implemented weak Net Neutrality rules that will allow a future administration to shift content on the internet into the hands of those same corporations so they can censor that too. Thus the final information leak will be plugged. When the new US House unveils it's budget next week, it will contain cuts in funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting that brings the people Public Television. The media will tell the public that the cuts are necessary to save the economy.

John
Soniclight wrote on 2/12/2011, 5:53 AM
craftech

Indeed, the U.S. audience can be still rather isolationist and hence doesn't mind or wants to be "dumbed down." Just look at some of the insane recent "the Califate is coming and Obama is in cohoots with them" rants of Glen Beck, Limbaugh, etc. It's only the right wing, sure, but Fox still has a sizable audience.

Likewise, even though I am a Democrat and hence watch MSNBC's Maddow, O'Donnel etc. there are times when I get a bit tired of their spiel too.

I'm fortunate in that (as 'splained way up in one of my earlier posts here) that I was born an ex-pat to a former WWII correspondent of the Cronkite, Murrow, etc. generation and he instilled in me to have a wide-angle view of the world, not a narrow one. That's why in 1968 I walked through both a kibbutz in Israel as well as a Bedouin camp in Lebanon among other interesting places where tourists don't go.

So I'm with you on the need for a more spherical understanding of the world -- sometimes the lack of basic geography, if not U.S. history by so many is really startling. I grew up having to speak 4 languages -- not because I was a genius kid -- it was necessity. Pure and simple.

At the same time, the truth is that everyone deals with life as best they can and for many, what goes on somewhere else isn't as important as their keeping their job, feeding their kids, taking care of their elders and so on. So for some or many, "dumbing down" is simply tuning out. Harder and harder to as the information age keeps widening its reach, but priorities are priorities and I can understand them. Some just don't seem very intellectually or culturally or even spiritually rounded, that's all.

As the saying goes, we collectively get the politicians we deserve (= really want).
Maybe it also applies to the media companies we have.
For now.

As recent events since Tunisia have shown, change can happen fast these days.
Hopefully this will spread in other ways in our collective consciousness...