I might be thinking about something else but the 60gig drive that I heard about at NAB was only for the EX3.

- Ray
Some of my stuff on Vimeo
www.undergroundplanet.com

That's what I was thinking of. I'm a little surprised to hear it only works in the EX3.

Rob

I've read that the new drive will work with the EX1, with new firmware.

Again, could be wrong but from what I remember the door to the SxS cards is different on the EX3, it's got a grove in the top to accommodate the SxS adapter that will go to the drive. I don't think it's meant to work with the EX1, though I suppose you could leave the SxS door open ... ?

The write up says:

"Also shown is the PHU-60K hard-disk unit designed for use with XDCAM EX camcorders - this is a 1.8-inch, 60 GB external storage unit with an USB 2.0 interface. Recording times of 200 minutes in 35 Mbps HQ (high-quality) mode and 260 minutes in 25 Mbps SP (standard play) mode. When attached to a camcorder, the hard-disk unit functions just like an SxS PRO card, with thumbnail views available on the LCD panel of the PMW-EX1 or PMW-EX3 camcorders or PMW-EX30 deck."

Just not sure how it would work, here's a pic of it on the EX3 with the wire going to the SxS card but the door is open:

http://provideocoalition.com/index.php/awilt/story/sony_snapshots_nab_2008_day_0/

- Ray
Some of my stuff on Vimeo
www.undergroundplanet.com

Currently I use the Sony S x S card reader and download to HDD, which is quite quick and the process doesn't need to be monitored. If you have an assistant you can shoot continuously, but this might not be much fun when you have to work a camera continuously. Fortunately my shooting leaves time for download. Sony showed a stand-alone transfer device (dumping cards to HDD without needing a laptop) and I believe you can use the 60GB recorder with the EX1 but cannot close the door to that card (you can with the EX3).
P2 and S x S workflows are hot topics, and the general thought is that one should dump to two HDD to provide backup (since the cards get re-cycled). The reason for high cost appears to be that reliability at high data rates is essential. The Z7 gets away with cheaper cards at 25 Mb/s. I'm sure the cost of cards will fall, because this is roadblock for everyone.

EDIT: Probably I'm thinking of the http://news.sel.sony.com/en/image_library/images/small/b2b/broadcast_production/content_create_edit/detail?archive=0&asset_id=34774PME-EX30_deck[/link], which is rather more expensive than a laptop!

To ease the pain of having to dump cards under duress ShotPut Express would seem the tool you need. I haven't tried it myself but if it does what it says it does it'd be $49 very well spent:

http://www.imagineproducts.com/ShotPut_EXpress.html

Bob.

Bob, that does look interesting.

Thanks for the help everyone. I really appreciate it.

The PHU-60K hard-disk drive will work with the EX1 according to Sony, but you need a firmware upgrade as Peter pointed out. Rumored to cost around $1000.

The PMW-EX30 will be almost as much as the camera.

The laptop idea with the $49 software Bob linked sounds like a possibility.

My main interest in the EX1 over the Z7 are the three 1/2 inch imagers as opposed to the three 1/3 imagers in the Z7, but the Z7 certainly has advantages in many other ways none the least of which are the outputs and the tape option. Still, those 1/2 inch imagers sure sound appealing.

John

To get back to your original question.

It's a good one. Is the EX1 the right camera for you?
In the end only you can decide. I'm pretty lucky as:
a) I can borrow a lot of 16GB cards if I need them.
b) I've also got a M15 deck so I can record 4.5 hours of SP from the EX1 to one tape if need be.
c) I can also borrow a DR60 HD recorder.

The SxS cards are about as expensive as the P2 cards per GB. Both use chips in some form of RAID it seems to meet the required write speed. Also I think it's zero defect memory, the time to remap faulty cells impacts the write speed. Remember also you can delete clips at random so no doubt the required write speed has to include allowance for significant fragmentation. We should be thankful the data rate isn't anything like DVCPro HD, the cost of enough P2 cards to hold 2 hours of DVCPro HD is too much to contemplate.

Before you go down the Z7 or S270 path I's do some serious research. There seems to be a few who are unhappy with those cameras. Probably they have unrealistic expectations, like expecting AF to work reliably in low light. You really also need to consider that the EX1 is a real manual camera. The AF is will eventually find focus, do not expect it to track something moving, especially at low frame rates in progressive. This is nothing unique to the EX1 though.

One other thought on the EX1 that I've not read anyone mention. If you're going to use the camera on sticks factor in getting a remote zoom controller. With the zoom servo disengaged that zoom ring has zero friction, it's a beast to zoom with. We've got two of the Zoes from Bebob and they're a joy to use.

Bob.

Bob,
What are you mostly doing in terms of transfer? Dumping via firewire to one of the recorders you mentioned? Or are you using the SxS cards with a laptop? Any difference quality wise?

And, yes the Z7 had a lot of things I didn't like. Another one was the lack of Push-To-Focus button like I have on my VX2000. I do have a remote LANC controller that I can use on the EX1 though.

John

EDIT: For those of you in the UK, check out this inexpensive shoulder mount for the EX1. May be the same as this one on Ebay.

a) The XE1 does nto do LANC period. You will need a real lens controller.
b) I just dump the SxS card over USB straight from the camera to HDD and burn backups to DL DVDs of each card.

c) If the EX1 is in SP mode (only) it feeds HDV out its firewire port. So instead of recording to SxS I can record to a VCR. For that though I need mains power. You've also got the SDI port which can give you HD SDI or SD SDI to feed those uber expensive VCRs. I do have access to a DVW 250 DB portable deck. We've tried that and the results are stunning as SD goes but unless you can get that kit at mates rates very expensive.

d) If you need to Push To Focus for what you shoot I haven't tried this feature with the EX1. Focussing with those 1/2" chips is more critical and the much higher res image can really showup if you're out of focus, especially if you're delivering HD.

If you can in any ways rent an EX1 it'd be money well spent. I do work for a rental company but don't get a commission :)

Bob.

Thanks for the tips Bob.

I wonder if this device would work with the SxS card readers to enable transfer to less expensive CF cards? That would eliminate a recorder, laptop, etc.

John

Another one was the lack of Push-To-Focus button like I have on my VX2000. I

I described how to make the Z7 "push to auto-focus" feature work in http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?Forum=4&MessageID=587048this link[/link].

I'd suggest a good read through the voluminous posts in the EX1 forum at DVInfo. More information and bits of trivia than my brain can hold. I know several such gizmos have come up there, just can't remember if anyone bought one and tried it. I think it wouldn't work as preserving the file and directory structure from the cards is vital.

Bob.

Another one was the lack of Push-To-Focus button like I have on my VX2000. I

I described how to make the Z7 "push to auto-focus" feature work in this link.
===================
Sorry Laurence, I should have acknowledged your response in that thread. I participated in that thread myself. I happen to love the Push-To-Focus button on my VX2000. It is fantastic and I use it constantly when shooting stage productions in manual mode. But your method is certainly something one could get used to.

John

Once you have it set up, it is really similar to the "Push to Focus" button on a VX2000. The only real difference is that you have to have the focus wheel in the forward position and use an assignable button.

Lots of chaff in those DVInfo posts on the EX, so the reading is tedious. Nevertheless there is good stuff in there if you engage your BS filter.

Bob, ShotPut_ EXpress does work as advertised. Writes out to 2 or 3 drives, names each download, will reformat cards. So very good.

Once I get a new laptop it's on my Buy List.

Bob.

Just in the way of adding data relevant to the post, below is a copy of an email posted elsewhere:

1. RE: Sony EX1 back-up procedures?
2. RE: Sony Ex1 back-up procedures

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Sony EX1 back-up procedures?
From: "Martinez, Juan \(Park Ridge\)" <Juan.A.Martinez@am.sony.com>
Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 02:54:23 +0100
X-Message-Number: 1

Hi,

I work for Sony and was involved on the Ex development from its inception. I hope not to offend anyone by providing information that is well understood by them. Here are some additional recommendations:

Treat the BPAV folder in each SxS card as your camera original. Copy each BPAV image to its own folder on the backup raid 1 or HDD (DO NOT FORMAT DISC AS FAT). Include a sequential numerical index in the folder name. This is necessary for quickly identifying which SxS cards images contain the clip segments of a spanned clip. The fastest transfers will occur by connecting your raid via iLINK (firewire) to a laptop which has a built-in Express 34 slot. Never modify or erase these camera originals!

Sony provides three applications that let you view the Ex footage and manage your content with the Ex:
1. XDCAM Transfer, an FCP plug-in that can also run by itself.
Therefore it is not necessary for the computer used for data wrangling to have FCP installed. XDCAM Transfer allows adding comments editing the metadata etc.
2. Clip Browser for Mac
3. Clip Browser for PC

Always check for the latest version (free download) from the Sony site.

Pointing to the end segment within XDCAM Transfer will automatically list the initial clip segment of a spanned clip required for stitching the clip segments into a single long clip. Only then convert to QT; which only involves changing the container from MP4 to MOV. Rewrapping Ex to QT does not change the essence, therefore no change in picture quality occurs, plus it's pretty fast.

At NAB, we showed Clip Browser version 2 (available July). It has a much elegant user interface and it will allow creating DV proxies, re-wrapping to MXF OP1A for XDCAM or OP ATOM for Avid, as well as creating h.264 also known as AVC or MPEG-4 part 10. In addition, we changed the XDCAM optical disc specification so that it can contain Ex data. Running Clip Browser 2.0 on a laptop connected to the PDW-U1 it will enable storing rewrapped Ex files onoto optical disc in XDCAM format or as BPAV in folders as data

I hope this helps

Juan Martinez
Senior Manager Technology
Sony Electronics.

Thanks for posting that Serena.

Since this is completely foreign to me (I still shoot SD) let me see if I have this straight. He is saying that:

1. When you shoot with the EX it creates a BPAV folder on each SxS card that becomes the "camera original" as on a miniDV tape.

2. The fastest way to transfer it is to some sort of disc drive device formatted with FAT 32 only with each image in a named sequential folder and then to a laptop (presumably also formatted to FAT32) via firewire.

3. Then save the $900.00 SxS card with the image on it as you would a cheap $4.00 tape as an "original". Yikes!

4. Use the appropriate version of Clip Browser for PC to convert and archive the footage.

Do I have that right?

John

Almost:

1) Being XDCAM there's more than just video in there, not much use is being made of it yet in the XDCAM EX line but there's provision for essence markers, in/out points, good take/no take etc.

2) NO. Not FAT 32! Transfer is way faster than tape and you cannot write 35Mb/sec to tape so no HQ, no 720p50/60, no timelapse either and no stop frame. Did I mention no uncompressed audio?

3) A SxS would have a life cycle of at least 50,000. That's the quivalent of $200,000 worth of tape, sounds a bargain to me.

4) Nothing like with tape which is real time.

Worth mentioning that you can immediately review a shot, decide it's a no take and delete it.

Also worth mentioning that Shotput Express will with one click make multiple backups and verify them. Haven't a clue how you do that with tape. SxS cards will continue to work under bone shattering G forces, tape jumps out of the guides.

We've now got a very neat external drive system, two 2.5" drives in RAID 1. Instant backup. We didn't buy it for use with the EX cameras, it's part of our SI-2K but the same system would be great for anyone doing tapeless acquisition.

Bob.