John- Where did you get to mess with one at?
I'm excited to get mine. I'm a tech toy junkie, so I get psyched to play with anything new. haha I guess I made a good first choice then.

Don't be surprised if I start asking questions once I get it. I'm usually pretty good at figuring things out, but I'm also not ashamed to admit that I might be doing something wrong and need help.

Take care.

I've got to ask, what is there about this thing to get so excited about. I've played with one of the original units. For the money it was OK in a Made In China plastic kind of way. No sensibly usable gain controls, level meters that were too tiny and a confusing set of controls.

Now the similar units made by Sony seem worth getting excited about, same goes for the units made by Nagra. Always wanted to own something made by Nagra so I nearly bought one of their PVRs. There's also the tiny recording system made by Core Sound.

If you're an unrepentant audio tech junkie like me then The Beast is what you should be lusting after...and no, you can't afford it :)

Bob.

Fourteen, give or take a few, is not terrible.

Bob- [i]"I've got to ask, what is there about this thing to get so excited about. I've played with one of the original units. For the money it was OK in a Made In China plastic kind of way. No sensibly usable gain controls, level meters that were too tiny and a confusing set of controls.[i/]

I've got to say, sometimes you come across like a cork sniffin' crotchety old man. haha.
I'm excited because it's just a new toy to play with. That's all I said. For $350 I don't think there's anything better out there right now. Of course if you spend more than that, then you should rightfully get more in return.
I've already listed my reasons for buying it. I don't need anything else at this point.

Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder I guess......
=P

"I've got to ask, what is there about this thing to get so excited about. I've played with one of the original units. For the money it was OK in a Made In China plastic kind of way. No sensibly usable gain controls, level meters that were too tiny and a confusing set of controls."

Yes, all the things you say about the H4 are basically true, but it is an amazingly versatile portable 96k/24bit digital audio recorder anyway. It costs under $300 and would still be an incredible value at twice the price. It has XLR inputs with 48v phantom power, it will accept line-in either balanced or via 1/4" inputs. The onboard microphones sound really good and can be enhanced with mic modeling to make them sound like several other high-end mics. It has a very good compressor and limiter. The 4-track section has gobs of effects and even has a guitar tuner. It really is a recording studio you can hold in the palm of your hand. It takes any capacity of readily available SDHC card. The operation is a little confusing, but it's fine once you get used to it. They've packed a lot of features into this thing and there is a learning curve.

The H4n cures most, if not all, of the shortcomings of the H4. I'm buying one.

"I've got to say, sometimes you come across like a cork sniffin' crotchety old man."

I think the word you're looking for is "curmudgeon", a more accurate description as I don't sniff corks :)

"For $350 I don't think there's anything better out there right now."

Agreed. As a PVR for the money it cannot be beaten, I've more than once thought of buying one for exactly that purpose, many's the time I'd like something I could just pull out to record a conversation for posterity and it's more than adequate for the task.

Bob.

I played with an H4n today myself, very nice. I guess I'm going to be selling my pristine H4, too.
=====================
I'd like to take a look at one myself John.

Which store carries it? I checked Best Buy and they only had the H4.

John

Brad posted a link to it from Sweetwater in the very first post in this thread.

Mike

I think he might have been asking which storefront he played with it at.

I knew Sweetwater would have some of the first to order online which is why I had an alert sent to my email.

Im curious as to where John had a hands on experience already as well.

I played with one at Grandma's Music here in Albuquerque. I'm pretty sure they have them in stock. Their price on the H4n is $349. Go to their web site at http://www.grandmas.com or call them at 800-444-5252. They have free second day air shipping on items under 5 pounds and free five day ground on items over 5 pounds.

I suppose this is the place where I say that I have no connection to Grandma's other than that for over twenty years, every single piece of audio and musical equipment that I own was purchased from them.

Thanks John.

Seems like a pretty neat store.

In fact, I found that Sam Ash carries the Zoom H4n. There is one in Paramus, NJ and one in New York City. I think I'll take a look at it there.

John

I got mine yesterday.

This is my first PDR, so I cannot rightfully compare it to any others, but being extremely anal about my gear and the quality of it......I can say that this thing does not feel "cheap" IMO. It definitely has some weight to it and the rubberized coating on the case excellent. It's a little top heavy because the housing above the screen (where the mics are) is all metal. Mics feel solid and have a nice resistance to them while turning from 90* to 120* and click nicely into place. Screen is nice, big, and very easy to read. Buttons have a good tactile feedback to them. Seems very well built.

I know I'm strictly speaking of aesthetics and feel here, but I haven't had a chance to mess with any recordings yet. Besides, I'll leave that to the guys that have some experience with PDR's and can give an unbiased opinion.

Take care.

For me at least the most critical questions are:
How good are the mic preamps?
How balanced are the "balanced" inputs?

I ask because I have the Edirol R-4 and it doesn't do that good in either of those areas. I've solved the noisier than best available preamps by only using condensor mics. I solved the pretty poor rejection of the balanced inputs with $400 worth of line isolation transformers.

Bob.

Bob,

I would appreciate your knowledge and experience here Bob.....

...what exactly could I do for a pretty basic test of the H4n that you're inquiring about? I may not be able to do what you ask out of lack of resources in dealing with audio. Again, I admit my ignorance of the ins and outs of PDRs/Audio at this point. I'm here to learn and then share what I learn with others.

Something tells me that if a several thousand dollar recorder doesn't impress you, then this thing surely won't either. haha.

Don't get me wrong, I'm quite happy with my R-4, it's been literally all over the country used to make recordings by one of our museums for posterity. It's been used on film shoots and all manner of other tasks. More then once having 4 channels has been very handy. It means I can take a feed from the house desk and run a couple of extra mics of my own and mix them in in Vegas. Amazing what sometimes gets left out of a house mix. But it does have it's limitations.

One chap from another forum bought one on my recommendation and hated the noisy mic preamps. Thing is he was using Schoeps mics to record chamber orchestras. He solved the problem by using a Sound Devices mic preamp. That was quite an additional cost that if he'd known about it upfront he would have bought a Sound Devices recorder in the first place.

I've had ongoing issues with feeds from desks with the R-4. All manner of buzzes and break through from wireless gear and dimmers. That I solved with expensive line transformers. At times I've had to use some 10dB balanced pads. Feeds from desks come out at levels too hot for mic inputs and too low for line inputs.

Reason I raise these questions is I know a lot of us use kit for many applications and these kinds of issues aren't immediately apparent. 10 minutes before the show starts is not a good time to realise you've got an issue. If you know the limitations of what you've got you might be able to address the issues before it's too late. Certainly I'd recommend isolation transformers for anyones kit bag unless you're lucky enough to own the more expensive audio kit around. A couple of "H" pads don't go astray either and you can make your own very cheaply.

Bob.

Just an update to this thread, I bought an H4n and have been using it for a while now. It sounds great! The layout and operation are both very intuitive and it's positively loaded with useful features. Well worth the money. Now I need to sell my H4.

Just to add a note about consumer level camcorders and sound recorders staying in sync - I routinely sync as many as three, (occasionally four) Sony camcorders and two old minidisc recorders then overlay a CD recorded live to that mix. For at least an hour, they are in sync...

Ralph

In addition to the H4n I have also been looking at the Edirol R-09HR. The User Reviews are really impressive.

John

"In addition to the H4n I have also been looking at the Edirol R-09HR. The User Reviews are really impressive."

Yeah, impressive.

Someday, somehow, Zoom or Edirol or Yamaha or Sony or Marantz or Mackie is going to realize that there is a third market, placed squarely between the ENG crowd and the concert piracy crowd:

Just when are we going to see SMPTE sync / genlock, BWF support in a reasonably priced secondary portable audio recorder for videographers?

Yes, there is a market, surely it can't be that hard to implement, and yes I am tired of chopping my rear 5.1 ambience into 10 minute chunks and aligning by hand, because to date none of these high quality, reasonably priced devices will listen to the TC from professional camcorders.

JMPR (Just My Personal Rant), you understand.