Comments

Spot|DSE wrote on 5/5/2005, 2:53 PM
No, you cannot. The deck needs to support 24p, so at the moment, you're limited to either DVX100 or an HDCam device.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 5/5/2005, 3:19 PM

Thanks Douglas. Or another XL2, right--one to play one to record?


filmy wrote on 5/11/2005, 2:02 PM
>>>The deck needs to support 24p, so at the moment, you're limited to either DVX100 or an HDCam device<<<

So you're saying the XL2 doesn't record 24p?

As for decks - I use the JVC SR-VS30 and I have brought in footage(into Vegas with the VidCap mod) that was shot with the DVX100 at 24p. As for output I think it is hit and miss, at one point SoFo said at times recording to the deck seems to strip out the headers. I have had it work but there is no deck setting that says "24p" however if all we are talking about is pure data and the file itself is flagged for 24p it should work. Same as 16:9 - the deck doesn't have any setting for that either but you can output and input 16:9 footage just fine.
farss wrote on 5/11/2005, 3:12 PM
Not that 24p is of any interest to me but once pulldown is applied 24p is the same as bog standard NTSC isn't it? That means any NSTC capable deck can record and play it back.
The only issue I believe is preserving the cadence and the metadata that defines it as 60i, 24p or 24pA.
Recording genuine 24p (as in 24 fps discreet frames) is another matter. I don't think the DVX100 actually records such video, if it did then the tape wouldn't playback in any deck that I know of.

I think the only true 24p film like systems are all HDCAM and above. That's not to say the DVX100 doesn't do 24p correctly but in terms of what it records they're still fields, not frames.
Mind you I find the terminology VERY confusing, as I understand it all NTSC tapes are 60 fields per second, question is how do you define correclty what those fields contain? Well they can be real 60i, 24p or 24pA. So how do you define a video format that is just 24fps, no pulldown?

Bob, seeking enlightenment.
BarryGreen wrote on 5/11/2005, 6:41 PM
When you say 24p, are you talking about HDV 24p, or DV 24p? If you're talking about DV, then yes you can dub it using almost any deck. DV 24p is recorded within a standard 60i NTSC DV signal, and can be dubbed and duplicated by any DV-compatible camera or deck.

The only exception that I've ever heard anyone mention was the JVC HR-VS10 (or something like that), a dual VHS-DV deck, which for some reason strips out the 24p cadence flags.

Now, if you're talking about HDV 24p, that's a whole different matter. As far as I know, only a JVC "ProHD" camera or deck could clone that tape.

But if you're talking about DV 24p, yes it's fully compliant and can be played back or cloned from/to any deck.
BarryGreen wrote on 5/11/2005, 6:46 PM
>>I think the only true 24p film like systems are all HDCAM and above. That's not to say the DVX100 doesn't do 24p correctly but in terms of what it records they're still fields, not frames<<

HDCAM records fields as well. Remember, HDCAM is an interlaced-only system (1080i), so when they record progressive-scan footage, they record it in terms of 24PsF (where sF stands for segmented-frame, meaning that they've segmented the progressive frame into fields for recording).

All 24p systems available today (except one) record the 24p stream as fields, and they're all equally legit. The only system that does it differently is the VariCam, which records full frames, but records them within a 60p data stream. By the end of the year the HVX will be out and it will record 720/24p as 24 distinct frames, and only those 24 frames... but even so, when it records 1080/24p, it'll still record it within a 1080i stream of fields.

There's been confusing information over how the JVC HD100 will work with its 24p footage. Steve Mullen initially wrote that it records a discrete 24 frames, with a 6-frame GOP. But Steve Gibby talked to the folks at Lumiere, who are actually working with the data, and he reported that the camera is actually recording its 24p within a stream of 60p. I'd like to get my hands on a ProHD 24p transport stream to verify; it seems a little wasteful to do it that way, but in the end it probably works out about the same, since entire duplicate frames should be processed very efficiently by the MPEG-2 compression.