Ahhhhhhhh....Stop with all the doom and Gloom. You guys are addicted to Vegas's editing power over any of the other softare just as I am. :-). Sure the other software has the bells and whistles as far as hardware control support and auto input for right now. Which one of them can you add CD track ID's too and burn a redbook compliant CD. Which one of them has a ton of Video editing features at your finger tips if needed? Which one of them has a UI to assign tracks to seperate outputs without opening additional master mixer windows? Which one of them has right clicking of the mouse to easily select the functions you need no matter where you're located on the screen? Which of them has the slip editing power like Vegas? Which one of them allows you to burn to a VCD? Which one of them has the edit ripple functions like Vegas?

With Sony at the drivers wheel, that only increases resources and money to operate. Do you really think they're going to wait 6 months or more to release a bigger and better Vegas with all the bells and whistles that will kick every other softwares ass with needed features? Or do you think they'll push up the development to follow strong behind a new Sound Forge release and keep pushing the marketing envelope? Don't worry a new and improved Vegas will be knocking at your back door before you know it and you'll regret you even considered the name Steinberg or Digidesign in the interum.

Just before NAB would be a good bet.

I would seriously start crying with joy if your prediction came through Red.

And yeah, im hooked.

Hey I love vegas as well, I just never promised exclusivity when I clicked "I agree". Right now I feel I've got some holes in my knowledge that I wish to fill. Besides which I'm a gear slut of the first order and that includes software.
Besides, the hole in my schedule is now. Who knows how crazy busy I'll be in a couple of months.
Steve S.

Red, you're correct that I'm addicted to Vegas's editing power and sheer ease of use. That's why as I noted in my gloomy message that I'm still using Vegas 3 most of the time. Hell I don't even want to try any other apps! My negativity and skepticism primarily relate to the bugs that still keep me from using 4 and how long its taken to keep fixing this stuff. It took over 6+ months post release of Acid 4 and Vegas 4 to get the apps where they are now and Vegas is still clunky and for me, its just not worth the frustration. Frankly what I'll most likely end up doing is incorporating another app for midi and VSTi's and later import into Vegas 3 (or 4 if it gets fixed) for editing and mixing. I've been considering setting up a separate DAW for this and syncing them to avoid the import. Anyway, these solution ideas just make me feel frustrated and pissed off that this all can't be done in Vegas when virtually every other pro app available has the features we want. I will admit that these other apps are known to be buggy and clunky as well so maybe what we're asking for is just simply impossible, ie: features AND stability?? Its hard for me to buy into this, especially in a time when our technology is beaming in 3D signals from Mars! I've been as religiously loyal to SoFo/Sony as anyone could possibly be but lately my rose colored glasses have turned a bit gray.

drbam

Steve,
You could give Nuendo a try. The thing is, there's no demo for it. Samplitude is new and improved over older versions and looks a lot like Vegas now. The only thing is there's no slip editing. A friend of mine let me borrow his copy of Nuendo, so I could take it for a test drive. There's so many different mouse pointer tools to select from and I have yet to pick the right one where I can click on a track and start playback from thaat position. I have to open a seperate mixer window to assign a track to another sound card input or output. Then if I click outside of that mixer window it disappears and I have to go back to the menu to open it back up. Maybe there's something I'm doing wrong or maybe Nuendo is telling me I have to have dual screen monitors so I can drag all their mixer windows to a seperate screen so they don't keep closing on me. The "auto-input" monitoring works and allows punch-ins on the same track. I will give it that.

Faced with the same situation (primarily lack of OMF import/export and Rewire) I went to a Sonar clinic and was impressed enough (just) to buy Sonar 3.0 for the bargain upgrade price of $179.. I never liked Cakewalk (though I like the company) and still find Sonar a little clunky, but for the price -- if you can still find it -- the program was well worth it. It works seamlessly with Reason and VSTi's (much better than Acid, which requires a clumsy dialog box setup to even record MIDI). It comes with some softsynths and a clumsy but workable sampler. In addition, it comes with a VST wrapper that really works and works in Vegas as well, upening up some nice vistas there. Latency is lower with WDM drivers than I can get with ASIO, input monitor works well, the bussing is more flexible, and it can print leadsheets.
The editing?
Less clumsy than Pro Tools, but nowhere near Vegas. Notable are its inability to stop scrolling to edit while playing, inability to nudge with the keyboard, clumsy ripple edit, dialogue boxes for copy and paste, no grouping of clips, and so on. Oh, and the multiple takes setup is horrible; it's nowhere near as good to comp vocals with as Vegas.
But it slip edits and does some things very well.
In addition, it doesn't rip CD audio or burn CD's.
All in all it's a good addition. It's not as buggy as Steinberg's stuff almost always is (exception: Wavelab), reasonably priced, and the company has a good attitude vis a vis copy protection, upgrades, and so forth.

I just keep telling myself " uber-vegas will be out someday "

everytime I get a chance to use other software I am dismayed when I have to do a simple split and move

"everytime I get a chance to use other software I am dismayed when I have to do a simple split and move"

Yeah, that's exactly the same problem I have a lot of times, when you try the things in Vegas that are so simple in another app, it seems like you have to learn an entirely knew language. I'm sure that app will allow me to do a simple split and move like you mention. Just like I know people that speak pig Latin probably have a phrase for simple English phrases. I'm just too lazy to learn an entirely knew language just so I can do a split and move. Steinberg apps are notorious for this. I spent an hour in Nuendo, just trying to find where I could have the program function with "auto-input". It took me another hour to figure out how to select different inputs and route tracks to different outputs on my soundcard. So first...I have to goto the "VST Inputs" screen and enable them there, then that will allow them to be exposed in the "VST mixer" section. Then I have to goto the VST Bus section and make sure they're assigned to the correct output. I finally ran out of hours closed the program out and opened Vegas, so I didn't feel so stupid.

My favorite mindblower is to grab a file out of windows explorer or anywhere and just drop it on a vegas screen

I know other apps can sort of do this but the way vegas does it shuts people up

I've been reading good things about the audio engine in nuendo, so maybe I'll at least take a look at that if I can borrow a copy.On the flip side I've heard it is very clunky for tracking. I don't know much about samplitude, so I'll do some research on that one. I did play with the new demo of sonar 3. Personnally wasn't that impressed. The sonar people seem to take the attitude of quantity over quality, trying to make their software do everything but nothing seems to be brilliant. Still leaning a little bit towards protools le. I think this is mainly so I can have better cross compatability. I haven't really worked with protools for 5 years or so and I figure if I keep telling people it's crap I should at least be able to defend my position.
Steve S.
P.S.
I agree with both Pipe and Red about it being a serious pain to work with a new app. but better now than trying to struggle through it with paying clients.

I get that impression as well. They are well-meaning (Cakewalk), like an eager pet, but at times should rein in the impulse to put everything but the kitchen sink in the program. Still, it is doing a job for me right now that wasn't being done at all by Vegas or very well by Acid.
The desire to keep things simple is why the ideal audio app for me would be Vegas -- just about like it is, with a few routing additions -- with OMF import/export and Rewire. And that's it.
Let other programs do what they do best and *connect* to them. Much better than trying to reinvent them and stick all their functionality under one roof.
I think you'll find both Nuendo and Samplitude also needlessly complex, as well as expensive and without good support.
Pro Tools is fine, it's dependable and is the Kleenex of audio. Still, real-time bounces, dialog boxes everywhere, all kinds of stuff that will drive you crazy after Vegas. I know. I've made lots of records on it.
And proprietary hardware, need I say more? Pro Tools free and LE are the 39 cent hamburger they sell to get you to buy the $1 sugar water.