> Why is anyone still doing backups to removeable media?

Hi Bob -

I don't have nearly enough HD space right now (probably never will as I will fill up whatever I get I'm sure) so I clear off my old stuff to make room for the new. I find it much easier to take my video files, ISO images and larger audio files and put them on DVD+/-R's after I no longer am actively working on them - They are very easy to restore if I need them and very easy to store in general. Since most of my AVI files are broken up by Vegas' capture into smaller files that does not usually pose a problem. Just 50-200GB would be a great benefit.

As for complete system backups, it would be a good thing as well but DLT tapes may be a better solution there.

Just MHO and my (out of necessity) workflow.

Well don't fell bad about it cause I do the same thing.

However the more I think about it the less logical it seems.

I can get 2.5TB of online HDD storage for a reasonable price and add more units as the need arises, files can then either be just dragged and dropped or even automatically archived, no thinking involved.

Cost per GB of storage works out pretty much the same, factor in the time saving and convenience and you're well in front. The down side is you're going to have to spend the dollars in one hit. The other downside is power consumption, DVDs sitting in a filing cabinet don't use any power. Conversely DVDs aren't reuseable.

Bob.

IBM plans to release 8 TB tape cartridges, using media developed together with Fuji.

Sony Vegas Forum August 1, 2008:
"Dang it, it's such a hassle to squeeze in my Vegas 9 video backups across teeny-tiny 8 TB tapes. Just sitting there swapping out cartridges all day, boring!"

If it is true that BD disks don't have working double layer disks in mass production, it would seem that it's currently BD 25 GB vs. HD DVD 40GB?

Either way, it makes even today's large tape drives attractive. 300-500 GB is a lot of BD/HD DVD disks...

BD double layer disks are in mass production and are in the distr.s' warehouses. But 8TB tapes for backup are very attractive for backing up v.content libraries.

I just want to jump back to the "Clay Face" display comment. That is not from the BD or the HD-DVD, that comes from some of the HDTV's that they are using. I took my good ol' Z1 into the store and hooked it up to several different monitors. The difference was obvious when I was playing back footage I had just shot in Charleston.

The Sonys looked good with nice color and contrast definition. The Samsungs showed the clay face look. The others were in between. Not all models by the same manufacturer responded the same. The engine inside can be very different. I remember that there was one Sony model that performed poorly.

Anyway, the point is, I believe that the display was the problem that you saw. Take an HD source, like a Z1 and plug it into several different monitors and you will see what I mean. Unless you did the same with the BD player, you can not assume it was the format. Put it on the new Sony 50" 1080p and I bet it kicks rump. My Z1 sure did :)

Keith

Anyway, the point is, I believe that the display was the problem that you saw.

Very interesting. How did you hook up your Z1 to the sets? I have been researching this problem for a neighbor whose set looks TERRIBLE when playing SD DVDs, but looks reasonable when watching SD satellite. Apparently you have to have both the "correct" connection, and also the right menu settings, to get all the detail the set can produce. This, of course, can be difficult to do sometimes in a showroom, where you might not be able to "diddle" with all the menu settings.

We've had the same sort of issues with Sony's Bravia, SD looks woeful, 1080 HD off air is still bad (ringing and aliasing) but better than SD.
Feeding it straight from a Z1 via component is about as good as it gets but still nowhere near as good as the HP or Dell monitors.

Of course you have to dig deep into Sony's specs to discover that these are not 1080 monitors so I suspect a larger part of the problem is in the TV's scaling chip(s).

Probably your best hope with SD is going into the set with component, it seems to add way, way too much edge enhancement so the better the signal going in the less it seems to degrade through the TV.

Bob.

I have an old (2003) Sony 34" CRT HDTV and a new 23" Sony LCD 1366 x 780 monitor tv and they both look super nice with the Z1 input via component. The SD on the CRT is not very good. I have another older Sony analog set alongside the HDTV and during simulcasting programs (Larry Welk on PBS) the analog picture sharpness and color saturation is far superior to the digital HDTV. At times during good reception the analog is close to the old MGM musicals in color. The digital is a bit low on color saturation and looks like about a .004 blur is being applied.
JJK

I used the component outputs when hooking up in the store. It was the Bravias that did not look as good as the rest.

Most of the sets do have tons of settings and store display floors seldom set up the sets correctly. One thing that you will notice is that most of them are set up with the blacks horribly crushed. There is no detail in the lows at all. Before judging a set on that, check to make sure what setting are being used. I have been told by a couple of sales folks tell me that buyers percive the set to have better clarity when they used the crushed black settings, so that is why they do that. The Sonys on the other hand look good and crisp without crushing the blacks :)

KK

This thread has gone further off-topic. There's no question that HD is in the near future. How will you deliver it?

I don't do HD yet, but if the WMV-HD/DivX players come under $100, I may buy a camera sooner than later. So you add $100 to your SD prices and include the player in the deliverables.

On the store displays - 'scuze me? It's supposed to be digital. The analog adjustments were supposed to be history. Even the brightness and contrast were supposed to be automatic based on the ambient light.

Steve M.

"So you add $100 to your SD prices and include the player in the deliverables."

hmm... to me, this is a lil off.. in adition to the camera youre purchasing, theres also the additional time required for rendering/encoding to their intermediates, as well as final renders o WMV or DivX for delivery... which DO take much MUCH longer than MPG or AVI...

If ur only going to charge an extra hundred bux.. be aware of the precedent youre setting..

"be aware of the precedent youre setting"

Problem is it's rarely US that are setting the precedent.
I've run into quite a few who have been forced to make the switch to HD (the real stuff, not HDV) just to keep their clients and no they don't get paid anymore.

i can wait to clear off drive after drive of reference material and jsut have a small shelf full of discs archived in order.

Before clearing off my HDs, I'd want to be really sure of the reliability of my removable media. Even regular DVDs can have burn errors or the disc can deteriorate with time or abuse.

I think Farss hit the nail on the head when he spoke about $ / GB. Also, with an eSATA external HD, all you have to do is put it into the external enclosure and the whole thing is online. No copying of files or assembling an archive from multiple discs is required.

And one advantage of having your archives offline (as opposed to a massive RAID5 array) is that it isn't subject to viruses, electrical surges, etc. Or to accidental deletion by user, including the unexpected user :-)

Wow,...I smell a big bias in all of this guy's writing...

As far as the actual hardware he was testing, he could be right about much of that. However, he needs to match apples with apples.

It's not fair to test a high bit rate MP4 or VC1 to Mpeg 2. Both formats support the exact same codecs. He didn't mention that Blu Ray actually supports a much higher bitrate over HD DVD. (at least it does in the white papers) So,..theroetically it DOES have a higher picture quality potential in the future.

I do agree that HD DVD is out in front,..mostly because of it's lower price and manufacturing costs.

Let's see if the Sony Play Station 3 evens that out!

If Blu Ray can get it's price down fast and it catches up to HD with PS3 help, I think it's higher capicity will give it a longer future than HD DVD.

This is a tough one!,...and I don't think there is room for both to exist together for any real legenth of time.

CT