Not sure what exactly you mean by "Extreme grain", but if you really mean the correct thing, then this is something you are going to see more if in HD than in SD. SD doesn't have enough resolution to show the grain from the original film. In HD you are going to see more defects of the original film, just like in HD TV you're going to see the crows feet around the newscaster's eyes that you didn't see before in SD.

So, being able to see extreme grain is a good sign that it was HD.

"Instead I see what looks like an old 16mm projector image on the screen. Extreme grain, more pronounced than on the big screen in the theater. No more super crisp images like what I've seen every time I've drooled at it in the past."
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How do you know the tv was adjusted properly?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending the studios for some of the crap transfers that they have done. It's pretty irritating to buy a HD movie at HD prices only to see that I could have watched it in SD and not missed a thing. The studios have a lot to learn when it comes to transferring these films over to HD, and some of them will never transfer very well because they were not created with hi def in mind in the first place. The transfer will always be only as good as the weakest link. If it's got that fuzzy look at the start.... it will most likely have it in the end.

But all this is the studio's fault and not the technology. If you watch a movie that was created for hi def from the start, then you will get the opportunity to see what hi def is really all about..... knocking your socks off. And hi def DOES have that capacity and not just with the video, but the audio too and so many people forget about the audio. There has been a HUGE improvement in the audio with some of these films. Unfortunately, as with the video, you need the proper (and usually expensive) equipment to reproduce what is coming from the outputs.

But when it all comes together.... it's a pretty amazing experience. When I first got into Hi def, I never really gave the audio too much attention until a short time ago when we got a 60" plasma. But I figured that if I had to reshape the living room to accommodate the plasma, then I may as well do the audio side of things properly.... am I glad I did!! I was watching U751 again last night (something I usually don't do with SD.... watch a movie multiple times) and the audio combined with the picture makes it more like a ride on a roller coaster as opposed to watching a movie. With the audio crisp and clean, everything being heard from the right speakers at the right time, the subwoofer shaking the room with each depth charge explosion, the clean video on a large screen. It's all worth the money!

so far with my HDTV I've had the exact opposite experience with HDTV (OTA) & SD DVD's. Last night I was watching "FireFly" on DVD & was absolutely shocked that the bright lights actually made me squint. Glares looked like glares. Ever watch "Star Trek: The Next Generation"? There was an epside where they put the image of a sun on the main viewscreen & had to blacked out? That's how I felt. The show looked amazing. SNL looks pretty nice too but I haven't seen anything on OTA broadcasts that looks that good yet (only get CBS, NBC & ABC plus their digi sub's right now).

But odds are it's the way it was shot. FireFly was shot in a way that makes it look the way it does with big color contrast, brights, darks, etc. Looks friggen amazing. SNL looks good, but not as good as firefly.

And what is getting popular with the networks now is "cut down Cinemascope", zooming down the aspect from 2.5 x 1 to 16 x 9 to fill the screen thereby missing half the picture and amplifying the grain to annoying levels. For instance lately: Pearl Harbor, Spiderman, Sound of Music, Grinch, etc. My hair raises straight up when they do this.
JJK

This is a rant.

So many people including reviewers want a super sharp picture and "clean" sound for HDM. The result is some studios over sharpen the picture and clean the hiss from the audio until it has lost its depth.

What every happened to grain and soft focus as tools in the film makers bag of tricks? With all the space on a BR disk why not offer the original soundtrack and the clean version?

End of Rant

If you want to know what the reference quality BR disks are head over to the avsforum they discuss those issues to death.

Back to the OP I saved 80% on my audio system by going online and buying factory refurbs direct from Onkyo, JBL and Harman Kardon.

I was at a local store a couple of days and there was a BD player playing King Kong on a Panasonic HD TV. The image was really sharp. The thing is it looked somehow really fake. Of course it is fake but you could see clearly what things were CGI and what werent. I dont remember thinking this when I saw King Kong in the cinema. My first thought was that this image is too sharp and therefore you can see all the faults in it now. I was quite close to the TV though.

I thought I must be wrong at the time. But reading this thread Im starting to wonder. Anyone with BD playback capabilites can you comment on this?

Sami

it's the way it's shot most likely. "The Secret Adventures of Jules Verne" was one of the first shows shot in HD. It looked TO crisp. It LOOKED like a set because of the clarity. An indy film maker I know said he "solves" this problem by purposely making sure the camera is set to "low" (or off on some cameras), not "fine" or "high" for the "skin detail" setting. Seems to work as his stuff looks more like a 1980's/90's film (minus the grain/jitters) vs a modern digital production.

I haven't seen anything on OTA broadcasts that looks that good yet

If you are fortunate enough to live in a location where you can receive an OTA signal unsoiled by a cable or satellite company, that is good competition for Blu-Ray, when it's shot in a studio and they haven't split up their allocation into many subs.

In L.A., channels 2 (CBS), 4 (NBC), 9 (KCAL), and 11 (FOX) especially look absolutely amazing. So sharp you want to put sunglasses on.

Channel 7 (ABC) and 28 (KCET) are also sparkling when they don't split up their bandwidth too much.

"I thought I must be wrong at the time. But reading this thread Im starting to wonder. Anyone with BD playback capabilites can you comment on this?"
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I keep saying this to people... If you want to see hi def at its best, watch Planet Earth. King Kong IS for the most part fake. A lot of these studio transfers are NOT that great.... the crap gets transfered along with the film.

Planet Earth was shot mostly with hi speed, hi def cams... and in the real environment situations. This will be the test for you. If you don't see a spectacular image.... almost like you were looking through a window... then (sorry... don't mean to offend but... ) there is something wrong with your eyes.... or your TV.

As far as being too close, it all depends on what you are using as a monitor and what you are watching. If you are using any kind of projector, be it front or rear, then distance is important because there is always a bit of error and you need that distance to drown out that error. But with a good plasma you can sit 2 feet away at it won't make a difference. I have a 60" plasma and while watching most (not all) scenes on Planet Earth, it didn't matter what distance I was, it was all sharp and clear. On the other hand, when I watch U751 or Perfect Storm, distance DOES become important. Not only is there a bit of that "film softness" in the transfer, they are also not extremely well done so a bit of distance is used to make up for the studio's seeming lack of interest in a perfect transfer.

It sounds like I put the blame on the studios, but in the end I suppose that these films were never really MEANT to be transfered to hi def and scrutinized in such detail. I will say that there is a noticeable difference in the NEWER films that are coming out. I guess they are NOW taking into account that after they're done on the big screen, they will move into the hi def world so it can be set up for such a thing at the start instead of at the end.

The local news programs here are really fantastic on the main sets OTA but as soon as they go offsite there is major deterioration. The programs on PBS are also fantastic and one can readily tell the difference between film and HD origination.
JJK

"I keep saying this to people... If you want to see hi def at its best, watch Planet Earth. King Kong IS for the most part fake. A lot of these studio transfers are NOT that great.... the crap gets transfered along with the film."
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I was just really surprised cause the Lord of the Rings is one of the best dvd transfers Ive seen so far. So I would have thought Mr. Bad Taste would have looked into Blue-Ray as well. :)

Sami

I was at a local store a couple of days and there was a BD player playing King Kong on a Panasonic HD TV.
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In the last ten years the only movie that caused us to walk out of the theater before it was finished was that one. Maybe it was just the two of us because nobody else walked out, but first it was the fake looking dinosaur fights, then the CGI throw abouts, but the final straw was when the ape started making googly eyes at the girl. It looked so stupid we didn't even laugh. But in Hi-Def the stupidity looks really good on that disc so I can't argue with that, especially with the number of bad looking ones to offset it.

John

I finially converted our media room from SD to Hi-def in the last couple of weeks. I replaced my upconvert Samsung DVD player with a Sony BR player. Best Buy gave away 10 BR disks with the deal, I watched Live & Die harder and must say that eventhough the picture was great, I felt a bit disappointed. I did not get the WOW factor of the BR player vs the upconvert DVD player.

Just last weekend I had Direct TV install their HD dish (5LNB) and watched a few football games in HD. I must tell you that the WOW factor was defenitely there when switching from SD to HiDef on the TV amazingly sharp pictures and depth. I have watched several HD channels now and I am having a hard time watching any channels offering SD. Even the FOOD channel in HD is unbelievably better than any SD channel (lol)

Ted

I watched Live & Die harder and must say that eventhough the picture was great, I felt a bit disappointed. I did not get the WOW factor of the BR player vs the upconvert DVD player.
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That one is typical of the average HD disc in both formats. I would suggest the following in Blu-Ray for "wow factor"

1. Blade Runner
2. Hairspray
3. Alexander Revisited
4. Lost - Third Season
5. Mission Impossible III
6. Planet Earth
7. Dave Matthews Band with Tim Matthews: Live at Radio City


John

Thanks John, I will have to try one of your titles.
I hope it will WOW me.

Thanks,

Ted