OT - Callin all DELL owners

BillyBoy wrote on 8/5/2003, 12:00 PM

Dell, like Gateway, other mass builders of computer boxes cut corners. That's how they increase the bottom line. Once in the distant past I too bought ready made systems which of course these two companies claim are "custom" made just to your specs. What they don't tell you is they may, to save a dollar or two here and there is disable something on the motherboard, use OEM video cards, less than the best drives and so on. They also love to fiddle with drivers and come up with their own version of restore discs, that supposedly will restore the system back to factory specs. One producer that kind of fell by the wayside was Packard Bell. They produced a cheap box, but to customize it was a royal pain, you know where.

What you heard about XP? Well I heard the same thing back when Windows 95 first came out. Don't upgrade. It won't work on your Dell. Of course it did. AFAIK Microsoft would NEVER allow anybody to tinker with the OS and in so doing make it only run on some PC's and require a special version to run on another box. Because some assemblers of PC's may cut corners, Windows may not perform as well as would/should if you had yourself used the same motherboard etc.. without any of the OEM cost cutting fixes.

You'll notice that Dell no doubt is selling systems with XP installed now. The bottom line really is do you have an official Microsoft Windows CD that came with your Dell? And more to the point is the version of Windows installed on your system when you got it been tinkered with by Dell? Ask them. Better yet, check out what other Dell users are saying. In case you're not aware there is a Usenet Dell newsgroup. Actually several which would be a good place to ask your question.

riredale wrote on 8/5/2003, 12:23 PM

If your 98se system is running fine, I'd probably leave it alone. But if you're getting fed up with the 4GB limitation, or if you are sick of rebooting due to resource issues or crashes, then go to XP.

I was happy with 98se on my desktop system, and then I bought an Inspiron laptop last January. Turns out the Inspiron LCD screen didn't have any 98se driver available, so I figured I would make the transition to XP. I put XPpro on both systems, and it runs fine. There were a few programs that wouldn't port over, but otherwise the move went well.

XP does eat up somewhat more RAM than 98se, but otherwise I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work on your current system.

IanG wrote on 8/5/2003, 12:24 PM

I'm running XP Pro, 2000 Pro & 98 SE on my Dimension 4100 - no problems with any of them! I don't believe there's any reason you shouldn't go for XP, but if you're worried, why not install as a dual boot - if it doesn't work you can always remove it. There were some driver issues with XP when it first came out, but you could check the manufaturers' sites in advance and make sure there are drivers available.

Ian G

JohnnyRoy wrote on 8/5/2003, 1:23 PM

> Now.. is it really because my system doesn't cannot support XP or is Dell just trying to make me buy a new computer???

Actually, my Dell Dimension 8100 which originally came with WinME was listed as compatible for upgrade on the Dell site and I did upgrade it to XP Home. So if they said it’s not upgradeable it may be because it wouldn’t perform very well or more than likely, as BillyBoy pointed out, they sold you crippled OEM hardware that they have no plans to provide drivers for and the original manufacturer won’t support it because it was OEM’d for Dell.

> i would be so screwed if the XPupgrade didn't work

You have nothing to loose really. Most people will tell you that you should reformat your system once a year anyway. If XP doesn’t work, you can always use the recovery CD to bring your system back to its Win98SE newness.

I have news for you. Once you upgrade to XP you are no longer a Dell customer even if the Dell web site says you can upgrade. After I upgraded, Dell would no longer answer my OS questions because they didn’t install it. You are now a Microsoft customer so if Microsoft says your system meets the requirements for XP then you can upgrade. Download and run the MS XP Advisor and see what it says.

If it’s any consolation, I upgraded to XP, downgraded back to WinME and upgraded to XP again so it’s possible to go back even after a format and clean install. As long as Dell gave you the original operating system CD or a recovery CD, and you back up your data, you should be OK.

~jr

PAW wrote on 8/5/2003, 1:37 PM

IanG,

Manufacturers do not have access to the windows code and the windows they supply is the same as any other. It is an OEM version but that justs means it does not have the same packaging.

It is highly unlikely they will do anything with drivers either, these are produced by the chipset manufacturer for the component i.e NVidia/3Com etc

The support statement means if you need support from the manufacturer you wil struggle. The XPS is getting a bit long in the tooth it is likely that it has never been tested with XP.

It is also possible that it will be unstable or not work correctly. Some of the components may have no XP driver support.

It may work - but the performance may take a big hit as 98 will actually run quicker on lower specification CPU/Memory configurations.

What is the spec of your XPS, i.e. processor type/speed, it may well be due for an upgrade Vegas would appreciate it.

Hope that helps, PAW

TomG wrote on 8/5/2003, 1:52 PM

I have a Dell Dimension that's going on 3 years. It came with ME but I upgraded to XP Pro with no problems. Just have to make sure you get the BIOS from dell which will support XP.

Of course, upgrading to XP is no guarantee that your problems will all be solved. I'm still fighting my system locking up RANDOMLY while in V4, but that's a different thread.

TomG

JohnnyRoy wrote on 8/5/2003, 3:23 PM

> make sure you get the BIOS from dell which will support XP

Good point. I forgot about that. Dell did have an XP BIOS upgrade for my 8100. If they don’t have one for your XPS then things might not work correctly. Perhaps it is time for a new machine. :(

BTW, my Dell 8100 locks up randomly too after I upgraded to WinXP. So perhaps we have all learned something here. Don't buy Dell!

~jr

PAW wrote on 8/5/2003, 3:50 PM

You need to buy what fits/meets your needs, some of us are OK with building our own others don't want to know and don't care how to.

Depends on IanG, his XPS is an old machine I do not think XP would be a good option, you can only squeeze so much out of it.

Lockups are due to a ton of reasons, mostly configuration and the 100's of bits of software us video chaps install on our systems (myself included).

Not wanting to sound like I am harping on but IanG needs some help.

The XPS is past its best, not the fault of Dell/Microsoft/SF just the way of the world.

Try putting leaded fuel in your unleaded car, not a pretty picture :-)

PAW

kosins wrote on 8/5/2003, 4:10 PM

Hi Tadpole,
I run two late model Dell's, one laptop and one desktop.
Both are 3.06g processors with 1g of ram and running XP.
Other than the laqtop running too hot to really sit on my lap for too long.......:o)...I don't have any trouble with either of them.

I recommend you don't do the standard "upgrade" process.
Format the drive and do a clean install of XP from your "upgrade" CD.
In the process, it will search your drive, come back and tell you you "don't have a qualifiying product, please insert the original CD" for Windows 85, 98, etc.
If ya have an old W95 CD laying around, keep it for just this purpose.
None of the OEM system CDs (HP, Compaq, Dell, etc) work well for this , but inserting the W95 CD will have you on your way quickly.

In the past, I've found that the "upgrade" process leaves a lot of trash on the hard drive, and the sytem itself isn't quite as reliable as one with a "clean install" of XP.

IanG wrote on 8/5/2003, 5:20 PM

PAW, thanks for the concern, but it's tadpole who's got the XPS - mine's the 4100 that runs XP without problems. If you can think of a way I can persuade my wife that I need to replace it, that really would be appreciated :-)

Cheers

Ian G.

Frenchy wrote on 8/5/2003, 5:32 PM

Hey Tadpole:

I've got a very similar system (Dell XPS T600- FOUR years old, now), with Win 98SE, and I've been going through the same mental masterbating as well. I've also considered a Pentium processor upgrade that will fit on my Dell MB (If memory serves me right, I can go to a 1.2GHz Pentium processor, according to the Dell user forum, and a couple of third party vendors) As a couple of folks mentioned earlier in the posts, I understand it's a BIOS issue, in that Dell is not upgrading the BIOS for our dinosaurs - and that is where "potential" issues could rise up. And since it's a Dell (read "proprietary"), no 3rd party vendors can really touch it either. :-(

Personally, I've decided not to upgrade to XP until I get a new machine (unless you are successful and happy if/when you DO upgrade)

As BB said, take a look at the Dell user forums.

If you take the plunge, PLEASE post your results here, and let the rest of the not-so-daring souls know how it went.

Good Luck

Frenchy

tadpole wrote on 8/5/2003, 7:51 PM

Well thanks for all the info guys.....

Still undecided on what i am going to do.. Think i am going to try and finish up the project i am working on, drink a case of beer and go for it!

I had some problems re-installing win98 last time i "refreshed" my system.. hopefully there won't be any problems if i have to tuck tail n run back to win98

(ps - This dell system has been ROCK-SOLID for the past,, 3+ years i have had it.. only problem i had was a nosiy sound card fan a few months ago - called dell and had a new video card on my door 2 days later (i forgot it was still under warranty!)

Of course... think i will be going with custom rig next time around

I'll post after i do the deed to let ya ll know how it went
thanks

pedro333 wrote on 8/5/2003, 8:54 PM

ok enough posts on this guys...if you are a serious (video) user would't you consider mac's G5 istead of a "packaged" DELL???

BillyBoy wrote on 8/5/2003, 9:33 PM

I never have or could take Apple anything seriously. Starting with the name.

Frenchy wrote on 8/6/2003, 10:04 AM

There's NOTHING serious about an Apple, Mac, or whatever...

beerandchips wrote on 8/6/2003, 10:13 AM

I use a dell dimension 8200 and am very serious about video. I am happy with dell and have little to no problems. Macs are great machines and I love Final Cut Pro as I use it at work along with Accom Axial linear editing, but I couldn't afford a good high powered Mac so I bought a dell.

kosins wrote on 8/6/2003, 6:45 PM

........"....if you are a serious (video) user would't you consider mac's G5 istead of a "packaged" DELL???"...........

Pedro,
Personally, I don't think my choice of computer systems makes me anymore "serious about video" than my choice of using my Ford Van, my GMC pickup, or Suzuki V-strom indicates how "serious I am to get to work" in the morning.
I'm serious about it all.

I use what is comfortable for me , and whatever suits my needs at that time.

I realize it's somewhat "fashionable" for many to diss the big three mass producers of computers, but my Dells are anything but "packaged".

I choose each and every component in them, I have a commercial account there and have a rep I call directly for great pricing on for computers, cameras, and software.

No complaints here. They are fast, reliable, and I like 'em.

Apples?
No doubt they are great systems. Superior or inferior? Nah. I don't tend to think like that. They work. PCs work. I guess we all have to feel comfortable with whatever "glove we put on our hand", and I rekkin' most of us wear the glove that is comfortable and fits right for each of our overall individual requirements.

I have a lot of gadgets. More than most people I know. More than most people YOU know.
I'd trade in a whole bunch of them for a wee bit more creative talent........:o)
THAT would make a difference with my final product. Not what computer I'm using to produce it on.

Have a nice day.

John
:o)

JohnnyRoy wrote on 8/6/2003, 6:53 PM

> if you are a serious (video) user would't you consider mac's G5 istead of a "packaged" DELL???

No, Why would I buy an application limited proprietary system? A friend of mine bought a Mac G4 because it was the first system to ship with a DVD burner. Now every PC owner has a DVD burner and tons of DVD software to choose from. Unfortunately, he still only has a G4 with a very limited selection of applications. No, I am serious and I wouldn’t buy a Mac. (of course I’d never buy another Dell either but that’s because of their shady practices)

Are you using Vegas on your Mac??? 'nuf said.

~jr

JohnnyRoy wrote on 8/6/2003, 7:01 PM

> I choose each and every component in them

You may choose each and every component but do you get the actual component you thought you chose, or a component that looks and acts like the component you chose, only to find out later it has a few features missing from the one you thought you chose? Look again at Audigy 2 card they are advertising on their web site. It doesn’t have a MIDI port or Joystick port. That’s not a stock Audigy 2 card. It’s a crippled OEM version made especially for Dell. So if you want to attach a Shuttle Pro to your Dell with an Audigy 2 card, think again; there’s no Joystick port to plug in into!!!

~jr

kosins wrote on 8/6/2003, 7:32 PM

jr,
Havent had the same experience as you. My Audigy Platinum EX II came in a separate box. My ATI 9700 video card was installed on the "second to the last one".
My ATI 9800 card was installed on my last one. No problems. All OEM CDs and packets of literature arrived neatly tucked away in a corner of the big box.

I like it.
I order. They deliver. As I request, specifically. Sometimes, my "specifically's" might git on thar nerves, but they do it anyway, still give me great prices, ship fer free, and listen when I yell.........:o)

Beside that, my rep knows a lot more than that freckle-face kid at Best Buy that likes to think of himself as a "Hacker" of some sort, and he fer sure knows more than that beer bellied ex- forklift driver old hippie (like me, without the beer belly...:o) "Custom Computer Builder", that still complains that MS-DOS isn't the current OS for most systems.

:o)

BillyBoy wrote on 8/6/2003, 8:16 PM

To be serious, you got to BUILD your own. <wink>

Seriously, (not something I am very often) all the brand names use OEM parts. Everything from the case to the drives, memory, video cards, etc.. Yes its usually good enough. The best? Sorry to burst anybody's bubble if they thought so.

What I'm saying is read the fine print. If you see model X of Dell or Gateway or HP, whatever and it says if got some hot video card or DVD burner, ITS PROBABLY A CLONE of the retail version and most often a watered down version. Again, doesn't mean a bad thing, but it ain't the REAL thing meaning the same thing as in a retail box most of the time anyways.

Case in point: Many years back now, but I remember Gateway got caught boasting about how fast their latest system was. Probably a Pentium II. What they didn't tell their customers was the L2 cache was disabled meaning the Gateway was one of the slowest of the pack if you compared that specific model to others that had the same CPU. It only saved them about a dollar. Of course when you sell millions it adds up. Dell got caught doing the same thing hacking off something on a popular video card at the time. Same result. Much slower performance than the retail version of the same card. Other times the cards were disabled. Of course you don't get the software bundle either. Thought you'd like to know...

JohnnyRoy wrote on 8/6/2003, 9:14 PM

> Havent had the same experience as you…. I have a commercial account there and have a rep I call directly for great pricing

Well, that’s not the Dell the rest of us deal with. Perhaps corporate accounts are different but they sell crap to the rest of us. I don’t have a rep to call. When I upgraded to Windows XP as their web site suggests I can (they have a whole section on how to upgrade and will sell you the OS), they stopped answering my questions because they claim Microsoft doesn’t allow them to answer questions for an OS they didn’t install. They told me to call Microsoft if I have a problem with XP. That is the “real” Dell not the “suck up to corporate customers” Dell. I’m glad they treat you well.

I have to agree with BillyBoy, its not just Dell. All the major players use low quality OEM versions and advertise them as the real thing. Best to stick with a small company or build yourself if you want quality parts.

~jr

kosins wrote on 8/6/2003, 9:47 PM

JR,
Please don't misunderstand me.
I ain't even a "spit in the bucket" in the large pail of computer sales companies.
Not even a grain of sand mebbe on the "big beach". Not even a drop of water in the thundersto.............
OK. I'll stop with the stupid analogy stuff.........:o)

Anyway,
I'm OK with Dell. Simply, no complaints. That about all I can, or should say.
if I had a couple of Gateways, or a couple of HP's, or a couple of "home builts",
I'm relatively sure I'd be just as satisfied.

I get what I pay for. I expect nothing more, and nothing less.

V4 is the exception perhaps. I paid the regular price for it, but got much more from it than I expected.

:o)

farss wrote on 8/7/2003, 8:57 AM

Somebody here seems to think you need a games port to run a Shuttle Pro!

Ah, actually its runs off a USB port so don't not buy one just because you haven't got a games port!