OT: Capturing 16mm Film sound via Projector

xberk wrote on 2/1/2016, 4:43 PM

I'm digitizing some of my old 16mm film productions. I captured the picture on my new RetroScan Universal machine. Sound was more problematic. For sound, all I have to work with is my old Singer Graflex Insta load 16mm Projector. It took me a bit of experimenting to find the right setup. At first, going directly from the Singer's speaker output jack into an H1 Zoom gave a bad result. Too hot. Distorted. Some mismatch of impedance ( I'm lame when it comes to audio stuff) Even the lowest volume on the projector was over driving. The output was meant for 8ohm speakers. I figured I need to somehow convert the signal to something the H1 Zoom can handle.

Finally I came up with this: From the Singer's speaker output jack to an old amp's AUX input -- then from the Tape Recorder output of the Amp directly into an H1 Zoom recorder to digitize the track as a WAV file. With the projector volume down fairly low. This works ok. I think the result was decent. I've ordered an attenuation cable that might help me eliminate the amp. And actually, I'm not sure what looping through the amp is doing?

Open to further suggestion.

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xberk wrote on 2/7/2016, 10:32 AM

I can't tell you how much I appreciate all the help ... So .. looks like the only thing left for me would be to try the NADY AUDIO DB1 as suggested by Musicvid .. this would be an attempt to reduce the hum coming off the projector. IT seems there is nothing for the pulsing except the RX solution.

If I ordered the DB1 unit, I think I'd need
one male 1/4" TS to male 1/4" TS (from projector to DB1)
and one 1/4" TS to 3.5mm TS or TSR (from DB1 to H1)
I would not use the XLR output as that is "balanced" and not what the H1 needs, right?

-- is that right? I'm assuming I'd go into the Instrument input and out the unbalanced Parallel LINK port. Then I set the attenuation switch for -20db or -40db and see what I get.

Not sure what to do with the ground switch on the unit ???

Here's some of the spec for the NADY DB1
Input Attenuation.......Switchable (0dB, -20dB, -40dB)
Instrument Input.............50K Ω unbalanced TS jack
Parallel (Link) Out............50K Ω unbalanced TS jack
Balanced Output................600 Ω balanced XLR jack

NADY DB1 Passive Direct Box

Going out on a little road trip. Back at this on Tuesday, the 9th ..

John_Cline wrote on 2/7/2016, 1:29 PM

What you are attempting with the direct box is not going to work at all. The 1/4" jacks of the Nady direct box are electrically tied together and are simply used as a pass-through. You MUST use the XLR output and you will need to build an "unbalancing" cable as I described above. (Tie pins 1 and 3 of the XLR together to the sleeve of a mono TS 3.5mm plug and tie pin 2 of the XLR to the tip.) Also, the ground switch is used to eliminate ground loops and if you're running the H1 on batteries, there is no chance that a ground loop could exist.

It is highly unlikely that the direct box is going to reduce the hum as the hum is coming out of the projector. The direct box is a totally passive device and has no magical hum reducing capability in this particular application. You are wasting your money on a direct box.

musicvid10 wrote on 2/9/2016, 9:27 PM

You need to use a 1/4 input and XLR output.
The other 1/4 is just a passthrough.

Hey xberk, email my username without the 10 at gmail.
I will send you one to try (if I can find it). You can use it for a while if it does any good.
I'll send you an exact pinout after I see which way it's wired.
I kept forgetting that your recording device has no chassis (earth) ground, thus no power grid loop.
John Cline is correct on that point.
Probably why the recording sounded relatively quiet in the first place.
Still, it's worth the postage to me to see if you get some relief from those projector microphonics and emf.

xberk wrote on 2/20/2016, 11:42 PM

Just to wrap this up for those who were following it.

Musicvid sent me his Rolls DB25 Matchbox to try. Super THANKS TO MUSICVID.

Below is a link to the results of my little test of the DB25 Matchbox from Musicvid vs the LC-1 Variable Control which John C recommended. Both ways work. I'd call it a draw. There are still heaps of technical issues that I don't fully understand and might make some difference but hard to see how anything would remove the pulsing, humming and noise except for some post production de-noiser (which John C so skillfully demonstrated above).

Today, I noticed iZotope's RX5 plug-in offer that Grazie posted. So I pumped both of the results through the Trial Version of RX5 Again, both results, to me, are very close -- and damned miraculous!

THANKS TO ALL WHO HELPED ME. That's what's so amazing on this forum! So I Hope my test is informative to others. I'd say the results I'm getting are HUGELY improved from where I started. Long live the Vegas Forum ...

Paul

musicvid10 wrote on 2/21/2016, 8:23 AM

Can you upload just the three audio (wav) clips to Dropbox?