The main point thats missing as this is just another reason for parents to continue not monitoring their kids. Governmental parenting is deteroriating our society and families more than porn, violence, etc..

Nowadays, its too easy for a parent to sit their kid in front of the TV and let the TV babysit the kid and keep them occupied. ow parents dont like whats on TV. They cant let their kid be babysat..err.. I mean watch TV because of the content.

With clear play, who decides whats inapproriate? Does the content owner have to set flags in their content detailing what each frame contains (i.e. nudity, lanaguage, violence) or is Clear Play going to purchase every movie and view it to decide what to censor? The latter would be impossible to do. Which means they will probably FORCE content owners to flag their content or face criminal/civil charges.

Now think about this for a moment. The government refused to intervene on a brain dead woman or a baby in Texas and save their life but they can pass a bill dictating what you can or cant view.

I am not a big fan of porn and think it serves no value. That said, I could care less if its out there. I am confident in my role as a parent that my childeren will not view it because I parent them. What they do when they get older is up to them. Until then, its my rules.

For those that dont see the big picture, our rights have been slowly taken away for several years. This is just another step closer to a bill one day, that says what we can or cant watch.

Having the ability to buy an alternate version of a movie is okay by me. There are some movies I've seen where afterwards I've mused that, with the exception of a couple of clips, I'd enjoy seeing it with my young daughter. This editing happens all the time with airline movies, and you still enjoy the movie. Big deal.

I've also read somewhere that, when you buy a modified version, you also get a copy of the original unaltered version, so the studio gets the sale. An interesting workaround.

As for someone else taking my precious video project and modifying it, that would be okay as long as they make it clear that it's not the original video I created. My ego is frankly not that fragile.

I don't think this is an issue of government taking our rights but quite the opposite. It is allowing users of clearplay to keep doing what they want to do. Another misconception is that clearplay is just for children. The reason this act is the family act is because it is for families. There are many clearplay machines that are used primarily for adult use, not for children. And, yes, the way it works is that you do have options. You choose to what levels you want sex or violence to bee shown as you watch the movie. This is controlled by a "codec" that you download for that specific movie with tells the player when to skip according to the levels that you selected. I have one and I love it. They do, do pretty much all movies (the main releases that is), its not that difficult.

Once again, the government is NOT passing anything that determines what you will be able to see. It is ONLY passing a law that allows you to have a machine that will skip types of content that YOU the viewer choose.

You say you care less that porn is out there. No man lives on an island. I'm sure you would quickly change your mind if your neighbor just got done watching their kiddy porn movie, needed a moment of satisfaction and took your kid out of your yard to satisfy that desire that was enhanced by watching the kiddie porn. It isn't just effecting society out and away from you. Your rules don't control your neighbor. Neither does this law. It only allows for you to continue to have your right to watch what you want to. It only makes it easier to have the skipping be programmed rather than having to watch the movie with the remote in hand and push FFW or skip to the next chapter.

Its simple, lets just let people watch what they want to and not force them to watch what you want them to.

Perhaps we are not talking about the same law,

BUT From my understanding of this law, it has been misrepresented here. This law does not permit the distribution of an edited version at all. What it is permitting is the sale of special players that will subscribe to special editing instruction set that alters the way the unaltered DVD plays back.

Parents can, for example, rent "War Games" and enjoy it in the raw, then they can play it again for the kids with all the swearing silenced out. The swearing is still there - it is simply not played back in a manner that includes that portion of the audio track. The special player uses the unaltered DVD and a subscribed index that plays back the footage in a manner that is edited for family consumption. Using the alternate index is an option.

To me this is a tool I find valuable as a parent. If the owner of "War Games" is pissed because my kids can watch an edited for kids version using a clever player and his unaltered DVD then I suppose the only way I could consider accomodating the copyright owners at all is to simply refuse to buy or watch the movie.

It will get edited for TV at some point anyway.

This law does not permit the actual mechanical production of altered copies. These players still require the unaltered copy in order to work properly.

>>...I wonder how religious groups would respond if book
sellers... edit(ed) the Tora, Bible, Koran, and other religious
>>documents

That has already been going on for some time. They are called "New Versions." (NIV, ASV, RSV, NKJV, Good News For Moden Man, The Living Bible, Duay, The Book, etc. etc. etc.) Most of the "revision" taking place since 1900. Most of the revision being done presumably in the name of "new, advanced scholarsip" when actually they are simply desigend to make a buck (that's why they are all, bar none; 100%; copyrighted, except the KJV) or to eradicate a doctrinal issue that may prove troublesome to a particular group/sect.

>>...It's the same, right?

No. "Religious groups" have not taken publishers to court nor have they threatened to.

The response of "religious groups": Don't use/buy them.

End of issue.

Wow-

I really like it when you all get worked up about stuff...

The government is conspiring to squash your rights, the government is NOT conspiring to squash your rights.

Religion is conspring against free speech - or not.

And so forth.

It is not possible for someone to legally re-edit your video without your permission. That would be a violation of many standing copyright laws.

I suppose the government might possibly say you must have a G version as well, but that would be challenged and ultimately would not fly for a variety of reasons. The most important is that the government can not put words in your mouth, nor take them out...

to a point, I've got to agree with you, Cheroxy. I like the concept of the V-chip, because it allows parents to control what their kids see and don't see. I also can agree with Clearplay. I don't like the idea of forcing filmmakers to edit their vids for Walmart or other resellers, but as long as it's the filmmaker's choice and not anyone else'.....then I think it's a good thing.
In truth, forcing artists to edit has only created a larger revenue for the music industry, so I'm sure it will be the same thing for the video industry in the end. Tipper Gore thought she was the musician's worst enemy when in a way...she was their pocket book's best friend. Edited versions sell for more, and the harder versions are what kids today want, even if their parents won't buy them. Just means more $$ for the musician. It's also generally a better idea, because it's public opinion that will become a part of the filmmaker's decision on whether to edit for resell or not. I see that as a good thing, because then the filmmaker can decide without force.

I thought this was interesting:

Family Copyright Act a Boon for Commercial-Skippers?
http://techfocus.org/comments.php?shownews=5062&catid=6


I think all this BS about censoring DVD's is out there to distract us from this:

`(a) Offense- Any person who, without the authorization of the copyright owner,

Six+ years of your life. That is what they can take from you now for "stealing" photons - for recording what is before your own eyes. Think about that for a minute. They could take 3 years just for ONE COPY.

If you don't think this will happen, you've never heard of Richard Paey, who is serving a 25 year sentence. Who did he hurt? From whom did he steal? No one.

Unless I'm missing something, the segment of the proposed law you just quoted applies only to those folks who sneak a video camera into a theater and tape the movie (presumably with the intent to burn it to DVD and sell it later).

Why shouldn't they get three years for that? What exactly is supposed to give me pause?

Why shouldn't they get three years for that? What exactly is supposed to give me pause?

Justice costs resources. Rapists, child molesters, and people who steal actual objects will be realeased so you can keep your "guy with video camera" off the street.

Besides the cruel and unusual part.

So what do you consider an appropriate punishment?

To me, camera dude gets three years; child molesters and rapists get one bullet.

Punishment should fit the crime. The law says you can get 6 years for recording what you see. Your "presumption" that this law will only be applied to pirates / distributors is irrelevant. The trafficking law that they used on Richard Paey is "presumed" to be for people who have been selling drugs.

To whom else would it apply? What punishment fits this crime?

I'm developing a device that records everything I see into a buffer. It's a sort of memory aid. I'll wear it my entire life. Now the Federal government can imprison me for six years for going to a movie. But forget about the prospect of spending 10-15% of my life in a cage. My question is, why should you, or anyone else, have the power to punish me AT ALL?

pmasters
The U.S. constitution was a living document until a few years back. Freedom of speech were observed and protected by even the most right wing groups.
Another example of errosion is a simple phrase 'due process',it is not had to understand just what it says, you are "DUE PROCESS" before being arrested.
If the thing is not an emergency then the police must seek a warrant from the court specificing reasons for your detainment. Over the last years 'due process' has died a quick and bounded death.
We have citizens in jail because of their nationality, or religion. This is fine until they come for you, then you will see why old men yell at every encrochment made into the living documents of our government.
The times we are viewing now are much like the 1940-1950's when Joe MacCarthy blacklisted most of Hollywood for being commies.So for the next ten years the pendulem swings towards crazy, and we must learn to kneel and crouch to avoid the pending doom.
Best wishes,
Marty

Interesting thread. A few random thoughts:

1) Artists only THINK they have to "play ball" with studios, gallery owners, TV networks, record companies, etc. They think this because they are often motivated by money and fame instead of the simple joy of creativity.

I have NO complaints with ANYONE whose goal is wealth or fame, but to suggest these be the main goal of every creative person is kind of puzzling to me. Technology makes it possible for a shlub like me to create a movie and distribute it in a variety of interesting ways. Theater or broadcast distribution are NOT "more legitimate" than individual DVD sales direct to the viewer, IMO.

I am and will probably always be a very small time player, but I don't care. I get to make my films my way with NO concessions of ANY kind to ANYONE. What's that worth? Do I hear a dollar figure?

If WalMart or anyone else told me they'd carry my film (which they never will, of course) but then told me I had to change it, I'd tell them to give their money to someone else. I ain't in the game to make someone else's film, I'm in it to make MY film.

2) History demonstrates that human beings are always trying to cram their version of what's "right" down other human beings' throats. Rarely do people just kind of decide: "Hey, let's agree to leave each other alone." Living in Oklahoma as I do, it is impossible not to come into contact, daily if not hourly, with extraordinarily conservative people. Oddly enough, I get along with most of them and they with me, and we even visit each others' homes occasionally. Their conservativism isn't ever going to prevent me from being irreverent, and my irreverence isn't ever going to prevent them from practicing their religious or political beliefs.

I suppose an abbreviated way of saying this is, I choose to do things my way no matter what the prevailing attitude is. Political and religious fashions come and go. I suggest to my wonderful friends on this forum that you have equal if not greater abilities and powers in this regard, no matter what WalMart or the theater owners or the client wants. In the end, you can always tell them to go &*(*^%%## themselves if they don't like how you do things. It might mean a few less dollars, but we can all live with that, right?

3) I understand Pmasters and the others' concerns. Perhaps the best way to counteract these threats (if in fact they are real threats) is simply to open our big mouths and invite our detractors to TRY to shut us up---after first suggesting that "live and let live" might be a lot better for everyone concerned than fighting to the death over what amount to pretty silly BS (Belief Systems.)

I invite your comments and criticisms.

I think there are a lot of very sharp posters on this forum and I appreciate your insights.

---edited for spelling and grammar----

Thanks Spot. I remember about two or three years ago I first met you discussing this same topic. I have loosened up on my view now that I have seen the clearplay option. It is like a happy medium - film makers can keep thier content in the original form and parents can choose what to skip while leaving that movie in its unedited form. That is why I chose clearplay rather than kleanflicks when we decided on how to let my 4 year old son watch his favorite movie - spiderman. It got real old having to skip the 8-10 scenes that we thought were to violent for him. And when we want to watch this movie we get it in the original format. PS - I still laugh when I think about the phrase I surprisingly never heard until talking to you - zion curtain!

Note - from a couple of the posts I think some are still confused. There is no law being passed that will force people to have their content edited. The motion is only to allow for devices that have the capacity to skip chosen types of content at the device owners discretion.

cheroxy

Our president is a jackass, leading our country into a very scary place.

There's more to that bill actually. They stuffed in a section that will make it punishable by jail for 3 years if you share a single film, software, or music file.

MEANWHILE... the billionaires are bleeding our economy dry, killing our working class, destroying entire industries.... taking our wealth and profitting off our country at the expense of our well being...

President Bush is just the tip of the iceberg. A so called religious man that is doing absolutely nothing to keep families intact. A Family needs a job. Not several. A family needs atleast 1 stable working job. Life shouldnt be about juggling several jobs, or working at one job for a year then another the following year. The lack of true family values is appauling. It's getting harder to raise a family and violent/sexual content has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Our president is a complete moron. A rich man exploiting the religious sheep. Gives them a few beans (tax cut, fights for abortion, and speaks of family values) just to appease the people that voted for him.... While at the same time doing very underhanded things to increase the profit of the wealthy.... such as insisting that all American's invest... aka hand over their money to corperations as a solution for social security. The same corperations that lie on their quarterly reports... The same companies that go broke and piss away their employees life savings. The same people who are out to rape and pillage our economy while our dollar still has a high value (and its dropping fast).

He's going to make it a law that Americans give their money to the rich, while 60% of the richest corperations do not pay taxes at all (in other words they dont give back to us, our country... and at the same time export our jobs, our economy... making it harder to live an American life style)

There is so much wrong with our country. The best part is that we keep voting for it. Btw both dems and republicans are completely worthless hand puppets for corperate America. When we you all realize this.

America needs a new political party devoted to Americans.

Politics, politics... : (

Viva video

Here's the link to the actual text of the bill as approved by the U.S. Senate:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c109:1:./temp/~c109L6HJbv::

It DOES seem like they're only talking about "skipping" offensive portions, rather than re-editing it. I'm much more comfortable with this approach.

On the other hand, it is a little difficult to follow exactly what the impact is without seeing the rest of the federal statutes. I'll do some digging and see if there's an impartial analysis of the bill somewhere.

re: America needs a new political party devoted to Americans.

Already got one. They're called Libertarians.

You guys make it easy for the republicrats. I wonder how many of you even bothered to read the text of the bill.

"Look, something shiny!"

"Where! Where!"

;oP```

I thought that was what the ratings system was for.

G
PG
PG17
R
X

Does this not tell you what the movie entails? If a store wants only family movies... go G. Personally, I like the Sex, Drugs, & Violence in movies. It's more 'real' for me because that's what I grew up around and see EVERYDAY. I don't act that way but it's in my surroundings and I can't help but to see, hear, and experience it. When I want a family movie... I rent a family movie.