OT: CLASS ACTION AGAINST EPSON

Back to post

Comments

blink3times wrote on 5/29/2009, 5:22 AM
"I know this is a way crazy approach to this subject, but how about the generic companies (which I have had plenty of success with) step up and make themselves more compatible with Epson printers."

This is EXACTLY what Epson is trying to put down.... the ever popular rise of the "generic companies". Let's not kid ourselves though... ink from the other printer manufacturers isn't exactly cheap either... but it seems to be only Epson that is taking such extreme actions in trapping and cornering the consumer with its little cheats.

I can still run my HP C5280 with an empty color tank if I only require black and white.
I can still run my HP past the "tank empty" warning to squeeze every drop out of the system.
At least with HP printers I don't feel quite as ripped off though. The heads are built right into the cartridges so they changed out with every refill.

Epson on the other hand.....

Apple and printers???? Yeah... right.... my guess is that you would need 'apple paper' along with the 'apple ink'..... possibly even 'apple electricity' too.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 5/29/2009, 5:30 AM

"... possibly even 'apple electricity' too."

LOL -- good one. I needed a laugh to get things started today.


craftech wrote on 5/29/2009, 5:42 AM
I think the following article discussed where the industry was in 2003 and efforts to combat it globally. The problem will always be the United States which does not have the political will to stop corporate monopoly and greed combined with a corporate controlled news media that brainwashes it's population at it's own expense and that of the rest of the world.

John
apit34356 wrote on 5/29/2009, 5:45 AM
Apple did sell printers long ago...


"The governments of each respected company will force each manufacture to consolidate into one company, so they then offer only one type of printer... not an AIO, but the ONLY one." Rarely, does the civil government design anything or supervisor anything that does not become landfill or massive paper pushing department. ;-)

Epson, Kodak, Canon and HP all are a pain, period, especially if they are not used regularly. John Cline's suggestion about using color laser printers has my vote for non-critical color printing. Epson hard to beat on high quality, small volume, big stuff usually------- but Epson, Kodak, Canon and HP all are getting closer together.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 5/29/2009, 5:54 AM

From the article John cited... "This enables Lexmark to limit competition in the aftermarket..."

Herein lies the problem. Competition built this country! Now, the attempt(s) to "limit competition" is what's ruining it. Just my personal opinion.

I have no problem with the price of ink. Sure cheaper would be nice, but I'm willing to pay for quality. HOWEVER, for my entire printer to shut down and refuse to print black text because it's out of yellow ink (which has absolutely nothing to do with printing black) is totally outrageous and totally unacceptable. There is nothing anyone can say to convince me otherwise. If this is how Epson insists on doing business, then I will do business with another company.

In the event all companies follow Epson's lead, I will have to fall back on my Binney & Smith method of years past.


farss wrote on 5/29/2009, 5:58 AM
Oddly enough Epson do make very expensive printers, into the $5K price range. They don't use cartridges, they have bottles of ink that hold around 100ml that one simply fills.

I'm thinking of going over to a CIS system as that's the only way to save a HUGE amount on ink costs. The only printers I can find that can be converted to CIS are Epson printers.

It's funny people complaining about Epson and their ink cartridges and then suggesting using a laser printer. I hope they realise that most laser printers simply stop once you reach a set number of prints. Then you have to replace the drum. Cost of doing that makes a set of ink cartridges seem very cheap.

Bob.
farss wrote on 5/29/2009, 6:02 AM
if only Apple would make a printer"

They used to, I think it was called the Imagewriter. One of the early graphics printers, pretty horrid considering it was a dot matrix printer but kind of cutting edge for its time.

We had one. We bought a memory expansion board for it. I was tasked with installing it. No instructions included. There was a very large piece of paper that instructed us to refer to page xyz of the service manual. The service manual was hard to buy and cost nearly as much as the printer.

Bob.
apit34356 wrote on 5/29/2009, 6:08 AM
Bob, its the cost of ink per printed page that lasers do well with. But the cost of laser toner replacement is high, but its the true cost of the printed page in the end that counts.
craftech wrote on 5/29/2009, 6:13 AM
The only printers I can find that can be converted to CIS are Epson printers.
========
The older Canons can be converted as well such as the iP4000 through iP4500 if you let the warning about disabling the printer status continue until it is reset.
Of course in the US you first have to defeat the firmware and change it into thinking it is a European Canon before it will print discs in the first place. Then you can continue as above to use a CIS.

The newer Canon printers have defeated this with newer ink cartidges designed to thwart generic ink cartridge use and designs that thwart conversion for CD printing (for the US of course).

All of this corporate hegemony would not be possible if it were not for corporate hegemony in the distribution of information via the networks. The average individual in the US thinks they can fix the problem with their remote control. There is a network geared toward everyone with little or no difference in the message. Just a different package of the same lies and cover-ups. The only time the networks go after a large corporation is if there is a chance to take down a large labor union in the process.

John
apit34356 wrote on 5/29/2009, 6:14 AM
Bob, CIS on Epson printers is the way to go. In the US, RITZ Camera is closing a lot of stores, many stores carried the big EPSON printer for poster jobs, I just missed picking up a couple for about 22% of their list price!
farss wrote on 5/29/2009, 6:24 AM
Same here,
I did pick up an Epson A3 printer pretty cheaply and could have had a couple of A0 sized printers very cheaply. Where to put the friggin things is the problem.
I work next to a place that sells and uses the largest inkjet printers I have ever seen. Last one I saw delivered took 4 men and a crane half a day to get off the semitrailer, what a beast.

Bob.
JJKizak wrote on 5/29/2009, 6:27 AM
With Canon printers at $42.00 why buy the new ink refills? Just buy a new printer.
JJK
craftech wrote on 5/29/2009, 6:29 AM
With Canon printers at $42.00 why buy the new ink refills? Just buy a new printer.
JJK
---------
As I said above. They are making sure that the newer printers sold in the US now cannot be changed to a disc printer by the consumer AFAIK.

John
craftech wrote on 5/29/2009, 6:42 AM
To my mind this topic would make for a far more interesting discussion (or at least be worth discussing in the first place) in the news media than spending between three days and a full week 24 hours a day discussing the ramifications toward a person after the media intentionally quotes that person out of context using a cropped video clip as if they were quoted in context or "OOOOOH did you hear that Barak Obama called Sarah Palin a pig" or "Brttney Spears shaved her head" or that "C02 can't be a pollutant because we breathe it".

JOhn
Jay Gladwell wrote on 5/29/2009, 6:47 AM

John you left out the most news worthy person of all -- Paris Hilton! She burps and it makes the news. Go figure.

Then there was the coverage a couple of weeks ago that made broadcast news "as it was happening"... when Obama went to a hamburger joint to get lunch. Now THAT's news!


craftech wrote on 5/29/2009, 6:49 AM
Another problem with some of the Canon inks vs aftermarket inks is the head clogging that occurs with the pigmented inks such as PGI-5BK
The Canon inks are alcohol based and the generic inks are water based.

John
craftech wrote on 5/29/2009, 6:52 AM
John you left out the most news worthy person of all -- Paris Hilton! She burps and it makes the news. Go figure.

I know Jay. They are called news "filibusters" designed to avoid talking about things that are important to the public welfare. Stark contrast to quality news organizations like the BBC that seems to be able to balance trivia and news very well as opposed to trivia and innuendo 24 hours a day in the US on every single network completely devoid of content.

John
TimTyler wrote on 5/29/2009, 7:17 AM
What the heck do you guys print anyway? Printing is soooo "2002".

All I ever print are pay checks and the occasional map, and my $99 laser printer does that perfectly. The small toner cartridges last more than a year.
Mr. Peacock wrote on 5/29/2009, 7:46 AM
Tim... a lot of us need these (especially Epson) for printing DVDs.

I just bought an Artisan 800, so I'll be sure to keep extras around if it is true that it won't print at all if even one color runs dry (I find that hard to believe--my other Epson doesn't do that).

However, I see no problem with them stopping the sale of aftermarket ink. Do you really think these things are that cheap? The money is in the ink. The big machines' toner costs way way less per page, but the machines cost thousands and need constant up keep and parts. So pick your poison.

I think I'll sue Toyota because my car won't work with a Nissan engine in it.

Who's in?


Steve Mann wrote on 5/29/2009, 7:53 AM
"What the heck do you guys print anyway?"

Photos, CD/DVD labels.
Dan Sherman wrote on 5/29/2009, 7:57 AM
Have been using Epson for years with no issues.
Printers do a fine job if I just need to dash off 20 or 30 discs.
For more than that we contract out.
Right now I have an R280 that serves well.
I think I had an R200 or something before that.
Printed many DVD tops with these machines.
Flawless.
I buy Epson ink at COSTCO because the knock off ink does a poor job.
Chienworks wrote on 5/29/2009, 9:32 AM
"I think I'll sue Toyota because my car won't work with a Nissan engine in it. "

Mr. Peacock, wrong analogy. This is more like saying, 'i'll sue because my Toyota won't run on Nissan gas." Imagine if your car would only except one brand, and one grade of that brand of gas. Now imagine if the nearest station that had that gas was 50 miles away.

Besides, i know a couple mechanics who would be more than happy to make that Nissan engine work in your Toyota. They enjoy challenges like that. :)
craftech wrote on 5/29/2009, 10:22 AM
Exactly right Kelly,

Ink cartridge capacity (reservoir size) ranges from 9ml (about 0.3 ounces) to 42ml (about 1.4 ounces).

For those few who think these inks are costly to produce and the profit margin is low lets take an average size of 1 oz per cartridge (which is really generous) to make this simple.

If the average price of an inkjet cartridge is, let's say $30 and there are 128 oz in a gallon then assuming a low profit margin it is costing the manufacturer close to $3840 a gallon to make ink.

Are you serious?

John
Chienworks wrote on 5/29/2009, 2:46 PM
You're not taking into account the cost of the cartridge itself, the labor, overhead, engineering, development costs ... etc. Add all that in and your $3840 figure probably comes out more like $384. Even that's still way high.

I think the most expensive fluid i ever bought (besides inkjet printer ink) was Kodak Blue Toner, at $2.50 for a 2 ounce bottle. True, that was probably back in 1980, but even with inflation that doesn't come close to these ink prices.