This is a favourite of mine - 'cos it is on an XM2!:

http://www.edwardflinch.com/images/mini35.htm

LArf!!! The Holyzoo.com one was HYSTERICAL!! The acting was fab too . .. ! Best laugh for hours that.

One of the nicest tricks I've seen done was to use an old full frame still camera and shoot off the GG screen. The screen is so big it doesn't need to move to hide the 'grain'. I've been trying to buy such a camera off eBay, they used to go for peanuts but lately they've become collectables with a price to match.


Bob.

"The Holyzoo.com one was HYSTERICAL!! " Grazie summed it up well!

Great post Serena!





PS.edited for proper credit to Serena for posting the Holyzoo.com link.

Why does everyone make fun of (my interest in) the DOF adapter thing? Is it not considered main stream? Is it a gimmick? From the films I've seen made with these adapters for just about an extra $2500 (cost of adapter and a few lenses) I am very impressed.

I guess I'll just have to give it a try... The Serena link was an interesting one I had missed but still nowhere any real consensus as to the best system. These companies are all so new and it's Redrock that seems to have the financing and the engineering.....

The idea is hardly new, P+S Techniks have been making several for at least 4 years. I first saw their Mini35 at IBC, they had two identical camera aimed at the same subject, same monitors etc. One with, one without Mini35. Sure the Mini35 got you less DOF but the loss of resolution was immediately obvious and this was just in SD. Not only do you loose resolution but the scattering of light in the GG seemed to cause a loss of contrast. This is about the only time I've really looked closely at these kind of adaptors.

I think some of the later (and way cheaper) units do better than the Mini35, recent work using microwax looks promising but I haven't followed that recently. P+S also do a Pro unit for B4 mount 2/3" cameras, these are in high demand down here at around $450 / day, cost around $10K.

I don't think there's any "best" system, there's a whole heap of compromises being made so I doubt you'll ever get consensus as to what's best when there's an obvious way to get 35mm quality and 35mm DOF, apart from the cost of course.

Bob.

reminds me of the guy that buys a honda civic, puts a wing on the back ,spends every waking moment and every paycheck adding every performance part he can get his hands on , and even invents a few.Ends up with something out of a mad max film,, then names it the porche eater.
should have just saved up ,,,,,,, and bought a porsche

MH? "Why does everyone make fun of (my interest in) the DOF adapter thing?"

Not me. I repeat, not me.

I have been considering purchasing a "device" Letus, SGPRo, Rock for several years now. But I've kinda got by, with my small, humble projects, with keeping my IRIS wide and using a lot of NDs.

Your endevours are applauded here. If you have projects that can benefit, then go for it. I am way, WAY behind you in your wake.

No harm meant from me. I repeat, I applaud your endeavours.

Best regards,

Graham B

>>>Why does everyone make fun of (my interest in) the DOF adapter thing?<<<

Mike, not making fun. As always these things are a compromise between cost and excellence. Spot likes the Redrock and that's a good recommendation for it. Quite a few people have made a project of building their own and their experiences are on that site I mentioned. The guy who made a "breadboard" test system out of cardboard and paper got surprisingly good images (at the small size shown) but obviously in terms of engineering it was unusable. Any practical system must be rigid to hold all the optics in precise alignment as well as optically satisfactory and light in weight. Generally that costs, so I'm not surprised that the Redrock isn't cheap. The ground glass screen must be precisely located, which makes rotating/vibrating screens high precision devices.
Recommendations are a good way to focus your options, but then you need to do your own comparative testing by renting the models of interest. Your sales/rental house may let you try on site without charge (depending on how well they know you).

Mike...

There's a lot of naysayers and skeptics on this site, pay them no mind. And, there are very few movie makers, here...mostly event videographers. If they spent half as much time shooting video as they spend on this forum, both sides would win.

FWIW, Heath McKnight is in the midst of doing a fairly lengthy comparison article on this very subject. He's got a variety of 35 adapters that various manufacturers and/or owners have provided him for the comparison.
For the flip, the Woodworth plug (free) for Vegas is great, because it uses far less resource than does Pan/Crop. There are also available; OnLocation from Adobe, Revolution from RedRock Micro, Cineform, and other real-time flip tools for monitoring. We're using the RedRock Micro system, loving it much. Then again, we've only looked at a few of these, and a year or so ago, they were all either too expensive, or poorly built, which is why we bought into the RedRock.

Spot, what/where is the "Woodworth" plug?

TIA - g

Grazie...
http://www.mirkwood.com/vegas/flip/

Thank you Bill. Too kind!

- g

Mike,
probably what you need to do is this, work out what are the parameters that determine what would make one unit better than the others. I can't imagine that any of them from the home brewed ones to the most expensive don't work. They'll all give you the same DOF given the same optics. Off the top of my head this would be my list:

1) Grain, less is probably better.
2) Light loss, less is definately better.
3) Acoustic noise.
4) Gyroscoping effect, vibrating beats rotating.
5) Cost.
6) Power consumption.
7) Precision and build quality.
8) Sync to video
9) Is the image flipped, Mini35 I think is the only one that doesn't.

Once you've got your list, give some weighting to each one of those things. For you any one of them could be a deal breaker.

Bottom line is asking any group of people what is the best of anything is never going to answer YOUR question, all you can ever get is THEIR answers. That doesn't make any of them wrong, they've applied different weightings to the parameters.

We can't even agree on what the best camera is after all, what chance have you got of getting any agreement on something to stick in front of the lens?

Bob.

Mike,
This fellow does a comparison of several of the top DOF adaptors here: http://www.philipbloom.net/DOF Shootout[/link]. If the link doesn't get you right to the exact webpage, you can click on "35mm Shootout" link at the top of his webpage.

I no longer have all the links, but I know I found a LOT of info on 35mm adaptors on DVInfo.net.

Bob et al.

I have read all the published "shootouts" and they are outdated and between equally amateurish adapters. I await Heath's writings. I have been through all the criteria you list Bob and I do have a shortlist which is looking likely to top with Redrock. They have engineering quality and obvious support while being very well priced. I don't normally disagree with Serena but the Redrock complete HD package including the acromat and rails at $1250 is a bargain. Serena: Maybe you could turn your SCT upside down and fix the FX1 with a collar on the big end and fix some lenses on the camera mount?

One other issue not mention here is vignetting and zooming. On some systems I've looked at you need to zoom in on the 35mm GG screen to avoid corner vignetting. Do you remember Serena's comment about the lack of long telephoto compared to stock, well I did find out, subject to optical quality and light, you can increase effective focal length by zooming in with the camera on the image screen.

I know when I watch my own footage I need more control on the eye focus, but as well as the artistic possibilities this looks like a fun project and I have bunches of Nikkor lenses already. I think I will likely get the Redrock but I need sell a tractor first. Anyone want a Ford 1961 2000 Industrial 56hp with bucket, blade and 6' bush-hog?