OT: Cowboys of Florida. How'd ya do it?

ScottyLacy wrote on 11/3/2006, 11:03 AM
Vic,

I just viewed Cowboys of Florida last night. Suffice to say, I was blown away. The subject matter was compelling, of course, but I was particularly amazed by the technical quality of the DVD. You're using (I believe) essentially the same equipment as I am, yet you produced technical results a good notch or two above what I've been able to.

Naturally, your experience as a DP likely has much to do with this. But I'm wondering if you'd be willing to share some technical details about the documentary. Story aside, is the DVD technically the result of nothing more than Sony PD-150 (and other similar cameras) footage cut with Vegas? Or did you employ some other techniques in the field or in post? And did you make the DVDs with DVDA or did you send a master tape out to a mastering facility?

Any insights you're willing to share, I'll happily gulp up.

I realize a great documentary requires first and foremost a great story, so forgive my focus on the technical. I'm just so curious as to the technical workflow that produced such a beautiful DVD viewing experience.

Again, congrats on the great work and the well-deserved positive reception the film has garnered.

Best,
Scott

Comments

vicmilt wrote on 11/3/2006, 7:11 PM
Hey ScottLacy -

Thanks so much for the kind words.

Nope - nothin' special at all. As I've written in a few prior posts, "Cowboys" was TOTALLY done with the same equipment that virtually everyone of you has, at hand. PD150/ PD170/ and even a $250 Sony Digi8 (all that stuff in the beginning morning sequence with the cowboys at dawn was shot by my son on that camera.

Totally edited in Vegas 4, 5 and 6. Feature now underway with V7.
Authoring by DVD Architect 3. Duping right here in my studio with a Bravo II, but you could do the same in a smaller scale with your computer and an Epson printer.

Of course, I've got an "eye" for video. I've been doing it for over 40 years now - and had the highest of standards HAMMERED into me in a life of TV commercials, by some of the finest art directors and creative directors in the world. And they are not all "nice". So "excellence" is second nature to me - no big deal - just do it over until it works - and again - and again... the more you shoot the better you get - simple.

And sorry - it's really no easier for me than for anyone else here. Remember, I've only been shooting digitally for a couple of years. Before that I was strictly a 35mm guy, generally with a 25 to 40 man crew assisting me. The biggest crew on Cowboys was 5 people (four "shooters" and a sound assistant) - and that only for four days. The rest of the movie I did by myself, or with one assistant to help carry stuff and wrangle the sound gear.

But do NOT overlook the concept. Cowboys are pretty to shoot. Colorful - action filled - interesting. All that helps. While I agree that part of my own "voice" is beautiful imagery, a film like "Supersize Me" is equally as good, if not better than "Cowboys" without ANY kind of attempt at visual artistry. It works. People pay money to see it.

Goshep - just get out there and start shooting something that interests YOU. Put it up on a website and tell guys here to look and critique. While everybody is an expert in three businesses (your business, my business and show business) - some of the critques will help you grow. And as many people on this site will attest - there's no thrill like a letter that sez - "I loved what you did".

Go for it.

v
fldave wrote on 11/3/2006, 7:50 PM
Vic,

I'd just like to say thank you for your insight on this forum. Huge, huge inspiration and knowledge and always willing to share it.

Thanks, and please continue to contribute.
vicmilt wrote on 11/3/2006, 8:23 PM
Glad to be of any help I can - I want to help you all to succeed.

On the other hand, I take from the well quite often.

This is an age of continual development. There was a time, not so long ago, when "everything" was known - for generations. How to plant the corn. How to skin the hog. Red sky at night...

Today, if you haven't been online for six months - you are out of the loop. Either you are working or you are learning the latest stuff. You can't do BOTH - it's too time consuming.

That's why you'll see me in "writing spurts" - it means I've just finished a project - or I'm starting one and trying to figure it all out. A couple of weeks ago, I was all in a dither about HDV. Thanks to many on this site, it's all coming clear now - and hooboy - HDV is the BEST!! (Love my new Z1) and my new HC3 - got a nifty Sony infrared light to try out with my HC3 ($50 bucks) and I'm going to use it on a night time wild BOAR hunt!! Whoopee...

But I'm happy to lend the product of my decades as a professional to this forum, whenever my time allows - jest ask...

v
fldave wrote on 11/3/2006, 8:39 PM
"got a nifty Sony infrared light to try out with my HC3"

I used my Sony Digital8 Nightshot feature to nab a teenage thief in my back yard. Police were impressed. Got the tattoos and face. Have fun!
DavidMcKnight wrote on 11/3/2006, 8:45 PM
It probably goes without saying, but I'll bet some of what makes Victor's work so good is his playing the light like a musical instrument.

I haven't seen "Cowboys" yet, so I don't know how much you used available sunlight vs. bringing in lights - would love to hear about some of that, too.
apit34356 wrote on 11/4/2006, 1:36 AM
"makes Victor's work so good " is he has an understanding, feel, of what "looks" good and how the scenes should flow. This means lights, imagery, sound and story line. This is why starting with a small IDF project is so important, it permits one's time to manage/learn how all the pieces go together and why projects have soo many phases or little pieces that help to build the puzzle( completed short). Also "shorts" help demonstrate the important of team work, from "talent" to crew to editing to production to marketing. Its a fine piece of machinery, like your favorate car, plane, or house, built by a crew that loved their work(lets hope).
vicmilt wrote on 11/5/2006, 2:11 PM
Well guys, I'll tell ya...

I've had so many kind letters of the "I"ve been shooting for years, but your "Light It Right" video completely changed my way of looking at things" kind, that it got me to thinking about another video. This one would deal with the techniques of directing.

Then as luck would have it, I got funding to expand my "Cowboys" video, and so - as we continue shooting, I've got a "behind the scenes" crew, faithfully recording it all. It's my hope and dream to compile that footage, plus footage from many of the "big" shoots that I've done through the years into a new "how-to" - "Directing the Industrial and Documentary film".

What do you think?

v
p@mast3rs wrote on 11/5/2006, 2:18 PM
""I"ve been shooting for years, but your "Light It Right" video completely changed my way of looking at things" kind, that it got me to thinking about another video. This one would deal with the techniques of directing."

I would know if I could ever get the darn things built correctly LOL.
corug7 wrote on 11/5/2006, 2:26 PM
I say bring it on, Vic.

So many of the courses taught in colleges and universities are taught by people in local television production or people who couldn't hack it in the production world (my university instructor wouldn't even show us his work). You have such a large and varied background, you could probably make a series (how to direct a :30 spot, how to direct a documentary short, etc). Maybe even break it down into budgets. Obviously the :30 spot with $500,000 behind it is directed/produced differently than the one with $5000 (or $500).

In short, I'd be interested.
DataMeister wrote on 11/5/2006, 3:23 PM
I too, would be interested in such a "how to" video.

vicmilt wrote on 11/5/2006, 3:52 PM
Patrick -
You have touched my heart...
remember, the "nanolight" is a concept, so improvisation is ok (as long as you wire it correctly)
Here is the simplest application of the concept which I will now call, "The Acid Light" - Patrick will know why.
1 - Get any sturdy cardboard box about 2'x3' with a solid, sturdy bottom.
2 - Cut the top off the box and then cut the sidewalls down to about 8" high
3 - Paint the inside of the box white - use Krylon white spray
4 - Buy two 6 outlet "zip strips" - don't get the expensive ones - you don't need surge protection.
5 - Apply wide Velcro to bottom of two zip strips and attach same to bottom of box, spacing both zip strips equidistant from all edges. (More or less 8" from each side, and 8" from each other.
6 - Buy 4 "plug sockets" [ I'm certain these have a better name] - what these sockets look like is an electrical plug on one end, and a bulb socket on the other - cost under $2 each.
7 - Buy four "curly" 23 watt flourescent bulbs and screw into sockets.
8 - Plug bulbs into zip strips. - two lights to each strip.
9 - Cover face of lightbox with any fireproof diffusion material - look in sliding window department for white tint (not opaque) or order Marlux, SoftSpun - even a shower curtain liner will work but that might be a fire hazard.
Voila - the nanolight. - errr - the AcidLight!

You will have to figure out how to suspend this light, but since it will only weigh about 2 or 3 pounds, practically any system should work - right up to simply placing it on a high chest.
Because the flourescent lights throw so little heat, this is a very safe light to work with.

For those of you who have no idea what this is all about... in my movie I included a highly detailed construction lesson on building a portable folding light for about $60 bucks - which I then shot the whole movie with. I call it the nanolight, because it's little, lightweight and cheap. It's become my favorite light of all - and a lot of people have written to me saying how much they love it too.

There is a building list of materials on my website: www.VictorMilt.com and I promise to get some photos up, if someone will remind me in a day or two via the website email link.

Best to all,
v
ps - Don't forget to white balance with this light or you will cry.
winrockpost wrote on 11/5/2006, 4:12 PM
Mr Milt,, how do i get a copy of your Cowboys of Fl work ?
corug7 wrote on 11/5/2006, 4:38 PM
Vic,

Just shot a 24 hour film using curlies in clamp lights. I had some interior daylight car scenes, as well as interior shots in rooms that already had daylight balanced fluorescent lighting. Just balancing the camera to 5200K (sunshine on my VX2000) took care of most of the blue tint. The rest was very easily removed in post. My only caveat was that I had to monitor what my shotgun was picking up as far as interference from the built in ballasts on the curlies, but that was just in the vehicles.

Thanks for the ideas!
Corey

Edit: "Acid" light... That's going back a few years!
vicmilt wrote on 11/5/2006, 4:45 PM
Thanks for asking...

The award winning video "Cowboys of Florida", is available at: www.CowboysOfFlorida.com

It was shot entirely with Sony PD150, PD170, VX1000, PD1 and a Sony Digital 8 camcorder.
It was edited entirely in Vegas Video.
It was lit (not too much interior work) with the Milt Nanolight.
It was authored in Sony DVD Architect 3.

If I can do it - so can you.

v
DataMeister wrote on 11/5/2006, 4:59 PM
Mr Milt,, how do i get a copy of your Cowboys of Fl work ?

One place is from the official site. Cowboys of Florida. On the site is a link to Buy the DVD.


EDIT:

I guess I waited to long to refresh my browser and submit this post. :-)

p@mast3rs wrote on 11/5/2006, 5:04 PM
The "Acid" Light. Yeah that does go back quite a ways. Thats the second time this year that someone has reminded me of the old moniker I used to have (Spot being the other.)

Ill give this one a try. I should be able to do it. I still havent given up on the nano light. Just need to get more materials.
PeterWright wrote on 11/5/2006, 5:09 PM
Vic - I tried ordering, but the site doesn't accept any non-USA States!

- maybe they weren't anticipating international demand ;)
Serena wrote on 11/5/2006, 8:43 PM
Peter, I had the same problem but Vic and I worked our way through that. Although I still owe him a couple of dollars for the difference in postage to Australia. Guess we could assign Spot a job as courier of international funds.

Serena
vicmilt wrote on 11/5/2006, 9:05 PM
Peter (and anyone else on this forum) -
email me your particulars directly: vicmilt (AT) VictorMilt.com

I generally avoid international sales 'cuz it requires a trip to the post office for customs forms, etc. and it really isn't worth the effort.

But it is MORE than worth the trip for my Vegas forum cohorts.
Feel free to contact me, and I'll get a print right out.
v