Dave... can we just talk?

I'm not trying to pick a fight, you asked for a critique, I gave you one. You didn't really say what look or effect you wanted, so I, like everyone else made some assumptions. It is YOU that needs to calm down. Its hard to figure out what you want. Towards me at least, you seem confrontational.

I agree with Kelly's suggestion a more upward camera angle would make the cross look more impossing and perhaps give it more a religious icon "look" if that's what you want. So too would more harsh lighting. I'm not trying to get you do things my way, rather suggest things to improve what you've already done. If you're not willing to change anything, I don't know why you asked for a critique to begin with.

BB- I like "just talking", and I'm sorry if I read into the post you made, but it seemed much more "civil" (not sure that's really the best word to describe it) this time around. I don't imagine that you would really like someone telling you to scrap your work, I know I don't like to hear it. I ask for critiques for not only this time around, but every other time I do it, and believe me I will be employing some different ideas next time around. I know that more harsh lighting be better - but is not easily done in BT that I know of. There are some intensity sliders etc... but they don't really do much beyond just blow out the whole cross. - I don't know if you've used BT before - but if you haven't take a look at the demo, that might clarify things a little. You may even find a way to do what you were talking about that you could post - I'd surely appreciate it. I do want some clarification though. Things that I read that I thought - that's something I could use, but I don't entirely understand. Sorry if I come accross as grouchy - I know it's hard to put tone/inflection into text ;-)

Dave

How about firing up combustion again and adding a little lingering smoke after the words are burned in? Did someone already suggest that? Sorry if so.

As for the rest, I'll be "Paula" to BillyBoy's "Simon." I think for the amount of compensation, the timeframe you're under and the venue in which it will be presented, it's pretty good. Don't allow yourself to feel like you've bitten off far more than $50 can chew or you'll get frustrated. Think of it this way, your next higher paying customer may be sitting in the congregation watching it! Do the best ya can with the time ya have. It's free publicity! I like it.

.........wondering if you guys would have done something different.
I wouldn't rotate the cross at all, just bring it smooth, then after the word was burnt in, zoom it back to a distant position. When all was done you could have all three crosses on the screen in the distance.

Maybe try bumpmap to add some texture to the cross.

Everyones a critic,
Good luck with your video

I like that winrock...the three crosses. ...

I gotta agree with both BBs original comments and his response. If you truly want to learn in this game you need the hide of a rhino. Reailty is BB was being very mild in his comments.
To do something like this effectively you almost certainly need to go outside of Vegas and use a real 3D application. Yes they cost money and they take time to learn and time to use. No the client didn't have the budget for that.
So long as you delivered something within what the client expected, on time and within budget, this is a good thing. I've done plenty of those jobs myself and I sleep OK knowing that are were what they were.
But you'll be forever doing just that kind of work unless you can take comments like BBs on board and step up to the next level and yes it's a big step.
So take this job and in your own time try making it look real. Your audience should feel they can smell that wood burning just from the vision, they should hear the crackle of the lightning without any sound being there. Some improvements can be made with just Vegas, other parts need a true 3D app, there's some pretty cheap ones out there. TrueSpace can be had I think for free for the older versions or else very cheaply and it'd do the cross with surface texture and lighting and the text being burnt in no sweat. I'd expect you could have this ready for next Easter.
Bob.

Dave, you can increase the number of point lights in BT, just add layers, use keys to chance position and camera angle in BT during event. Also you can add textures to the BT as needed.

I haven't used BT for awhile, didn't care for it that much, so I don't remember that well what it could and couldn't do. If you're only getting $50, then maybe do a little touch up on the text and stop. You don't want to end up investing days of your time and not get anything for it. We've all been there, done that. Not very smart from a business sense.

For the future, if you like to add 3D effects, depending on what you want to do and how much you want to spend there's lots to pick from. For 3D text, sometimes some application that started out as shareware is really the best choice. I happen to like Xara3D. What you want to look for in features is something that offers lighting from three or more controlable sources that can be move in X,Y, Z space. This alone can greatly add to the illusion making 2D objects appear more 3D because of how realistic the light can shine on the text or other objects if you position it properly. When you factor in rotation, you can get some very good effects. Generally, a slower, less then full rotation is best. Spinning should be reserved for tops.

While Poser is designed mainly for making human like characters, it has the ability to import various 3D file types and you can pose a still image as the backgorund and end up creating a AVI. So if you want to invest about $150 that's another good 3D tool. If price isn't a factor there are many others.

While special effects are nice, too many in one short sequence distract from each other. In my opinion you were closer to that then from it. Again, that's just opinion. You're free to accept none, all or some of what I said. <wink>

I forget which FX filter it is, but Vegas 5 comes with at least one spotlight. Again the key is to change the prespective to the object you're lighting as well as the intensity. Sometimes just a nudge up/down or left/right or getting it a little brighter or dimmer makes a world of difference.

As long as I know you're a Christian, have a happy Easter Sunday.

edit:

oops, forgot to mention a couple... if you can still find a copy (don't even know if it works with XP) RayDream Stuido while pretty old could do lots of sweet 3D effects and its far cheaper than Borris. Also Painter, Freehand, Fireworks, and if you can find it Amorphium (ported from the Mac world) is another sweet 3D scullping and painting tool. Sadly, it didn't go over that well on the Windows platform, kept crashing.

It's very pricey, but it does good 3D stuff and you could make a cross there no problem. It also has different wood textures and lighting, though I didn't have a huge problem with the lighting in the project currently. Actually, I'm not too crazy about Boris's lighting or fire effects.
But, it might be an interesting demo to check out if you plan on doing more things like this, FrigidNDEditing.

Dave, winrock suggestions about using a bumpmap on the cross is a good ideal. just keyframe the bumpmap to move with the lighting, just invert the effect.

Xara3D is a good app, great looking text, limited fonts, a great buy for its money. The BT has more options in general, but Xara3D chars are just good looking. Xara3D has easy lighting controls but limited keying.

I realy would like to know how you did the lightning strikes?? Was that done in vegas??

The fire and smoke was done in Particle Illusion...I recognized it,

Skywatcher

Lightning and fire, and smoke - All PI3 user_02_03.il3 is the file off of wondertouches website in the download section.

It was one of the user files, slightly augmented. Lightning strike 6 I think , reduce the number of lightning bolts, and completely turn down the copy of center unless you want to use a bunch of red dots that will disappear after a short time. (would have taken too long in this one).

Bob, I didn't think I was not taking his comments - I asked for critiques. Some of his stuff didn't apply, some of it I wanted to get further info on, and some of it I decided was not what I thought just due to dissagreement, and still some was just plain being incapable with software / time. I'm not sure that this is quite where I want to go right now, but if it is, I'll have a hard time getting local work from churches for this kind of stuff, if not from everyone - low median household income around here (some of the lowest in the US - but the Best of many other things).

I may work on it more in the future - as time avails itself to me (if time avails itself to a fulltime student, newly married, PT employed, guy who is working on getting a small business off the ground a little ways so that he can put more financial burden on his busines ;-) Never the less - I certainly appreciate all the input on the work, and I'll store them away - or at least sony will for recall later with a small search ;-)

Dave

Frigid,

I liked your piece a lot. Two suggestions, both of which might be quick and easy to implement:

1) The cross. Because of the difficulties you encountered making it more realistic, perhaps you could go the other direction. How about making it pure white, so that it becomes completely "symbolic" and not stuck between realism and symbolism. Just a thought; it might contrast too much with the quite realistic effects as per other comments. I really liked the suggestion above about three crosses, but perhaps that would take a lot of time, and as you've said your trying to balance your investment in this project.

2) The text -- I suggest fading the words out more slowly, rather than having them disappear so quickly.

Good job, I'm sure the church will appreciate your work, and Happy Easter!

Greg

Not really a video but an FX To be used in a sermon and totally fit for the Purpose.. Obviously the Mis-Spelling needs correction..

What this does is equivalent to Bullet Points.. Anything That was too realistic ect.. would take attention away from the Speaker ! This actually will accentuate what the speaker is saying just as its purpose intended.. So on that score..

GOOD JOB...

Mark gets it - I also know my customer, and what he wants, or doesn't want. So I do have to say that some of this is his way.

I REALLY like the 3 crosses idea, but that's not something that works for this purpose, this time around. Nor am I able to make a hill or anything of the sort. I will keep in mind all that's been said, and I've been working on some different lighting techniques in BT to get a more "realistic" or at lest less fake looking situation - BT is not made for lighting IMO.

Dave

I'm only weighing in here after reading others critiques so I probably viewed it with certain things in mind . Keep in mind that I liked it over all and only you know if this project meets everyone's expectations . So I will only post here the things that maybe I might have done different .

1 : Your quote ; ( " I masked the text to come out as the lightning "wrote it" and I used a second white text masked on a layer above the gold text with a diagonal mask, and slid it across to give that "shine/reflection" look" ) . I was expecting to see a shinny gold reflection a certain heavenly glimmering gold . Was surprised to see a cartoonish text and coloring . I think a golden glimmering metallic text could have represented the overall theme a little better . Like it could have made the cross appear to be marble with golden inlay . Which my thinking the lightning represented the power the gold represents the passion and the whiteness of the cross represents the presence . Can you see my thinking representing the 3 words maybe a little stronger . Bluff Titler does a nice job with metallic gold IMO .

2: I didn't understand the light affect in this manner it seemed out of context to me . I was thinking of maybe a faint heavenly glow might get the job done but on gold metallic text .The light seemed a little like a sales event at a car lot . Again I think Bluff Titler can get the job done . Or Vegas .

3 :The lightning I thought was a little much . Very cool , but my thinking is that it was fine on the text power but on the other words I think it would have been more pleasing to bring the text in with something that represented that word better . The lightning seemed a little out of place because my senses really wanted sound . I was kind of left with the sense I would be getting a whiff of burning plastic and maybe that was do to my other senses kicking in due to no sound .

4: The text where it had just the word presence and no cross then power . I wasn't sure what it said I had to go back and replay to see it said power .

5: $50 you say . This is the part that really bothers me . I don't like hearing I'm only making $50 . I like hearing about the 3 words your vid was about . Like I have a real PASSION for this editing and I want the Vegas communities PRESENCE of input because I want to learn the POWER of the tools and your peoples experience . Because for me this is not about the money .

So thats my 5 cents worth take it, leave it, do what you want with it . I commend you on your effort and courage to invite the Vegas community to take a look at a piece of your work and comment on it . I really did like it over all . The biggest thing was the cartoonish text didn't fit for me . As long as you had fun doing it and like it, when seeing everything from your perspective then that's all that matters . I'm only trying to give you my opinion on what I might change I'm not trying to slam your work . I'm sure you worked very hard on this piece and should be proud of the acomplishment .

Jon