Don't think you can really fry it Caruso, but you can get into some messy places if you don't know what you're doing. Haven't had the guts to try any of this stuff myself, since all the tech info stems from europeans trying to enable DV-in on their PAL corders-(like the poster above..camcorders w/DV-in functionality are taxed at a higher rate in europe, so they leave the feature turned-off), though I've heard that the changes apply to NTSC models as well. You'll find links on the 2 sites to other sites, and by jumping around you should be able to fill in the big picture. Let me know if you try it. If your camera doesn't explode, I'll try it on mine..

LOL, JBoy. If my cam does explode, I would never admit it here. I'll just slither off to the nearest big box and purchase something else.

Frankly, most of the meaningful analog 8mm that I own has already been digitized the slow way (by dubbing to Digi8), and, I no longer shoot in analog 8mm, never owned any non-8mm camcorder, so, wile analog --> computer pass through might be nice, I really am beyond having a frequent use for it.

Will my curiosity tempt me to risk "frying" my camcorder - stay tuned!

Caruso

This discussion came at a perfect time for me - I was balking at the idea of spending the amount of money I was researching for a DV format camera. I am just starting out and will be focusing on creating underwater footage in a housing, and wanted to still go digital.

I am looking at the Sony TRV350, which is Digital 8 and has among other things, Firewire and the pass thru option discussed already. Anyone have any experiences with this camera? Image quality issues, etc?

Any input would be helpful.

Thanks,

Cliff Etzel
Freediving Photographer

I love my TRV 120 for outdoor work and still use it expecially with an enhancing filter for fall foliage shoots.

I am really a total n00b to video, having just started learning Vegas over the course of the last 3 weeks. I have been a photographer for over 20 years, the last 12 as a still photojournalist and editorial photographer, and am finally making the jump to video.

How is the image quality - is it good enough for serious work? I know it isn't a 3 chip camera by any means, but I am on a tight budget and want to get the best bang for my buck. I am mainly looking to start doing ocean related feature/documentary type work with it initially.

Cliff Etzel

It depends on what kind of "serious work" you have in mind. DV is pretty much as good as the video you can see on a good TV set. It's much better quality than VHS. DV produced with a 3-chip camera has been ranked as being similar, or slightly better, than "BetacamSP," a professional video format that is the backbone of many TV station news departments.

That said, in quantitative terms, DV is much worse than the still images you are familiar with. Video can't stand any enlargement at all, since it's only 480x720 (in NTSC countries), or about 1/3 of a megapixel, and full of noise.

However, some camcorders are offering larger CCDs for stills. Mid-range Sonys now capture megapixel stills. That's substantially better than NTSC.

-jf

Well, I'm not worried about stills - I have still digital cameras in housings for if I need stills.

I was more concerned with general video quality for any work that I would produce (stock footage, special assignments, etc) that could be used commercially, albeit on a smaller scale. Again, I realize that this isn't a higher end camera, but I want to know what I can get away with before I have to look at upgrading.

TIA,

Cliff

I don't think you can beat it. Have used one for years. The only problem is with real low light situations The 3 ccd camera is much better. Using a good video editing program like vegas 4 can really help as the color corrections are very precise. Remember you are producing video for TV basically and the Digital 8 will do a great job. The camera is rugged construction and not prone to problems that I know of.

My next camera will definitely be 3 CCD. I find myself in low-light situations a lot, and I hate the graininess.

-Jeremy

I'd say, definitely start off with the Digital 8 - they've got a carload of features for minimal bucks. And it's not like a Minox vs. a 4x5. The quality is there, for most stuff that you'll shoot at first.

As a still photographer turned "movie guy" I can speak with experience... they ain't the same. Lighting, composition, visual impact - all these (from your professional still experiences) will benefit you. But still photography is all about "the moment". Video (film) is about the transition, the movement, the sound track and the ballet of time. It takes a while to catch on. The first thing that you have to get used to is Leaving The Camera On. It's not click, run, click, run. It's more like "we better shoot all of this, and then clean it up in the edit".
You'll have to learn the significance of the wide shot, medium, and close-up (all of which a photojournalist is familiar with) - but you'll also have to learn the cutaway, the flashback and the swish pan, which have no analagous counterpart in stills.
It's a ball, and you'll love it. But you don't need super expensive equipment (anymore) to get this knowledge, any more than you'd give a Hasselblad to a beginning still student who was formerly a top illustrator.
Get your Digi8 and start shooting, just like when you fell in love with photography. Then come home and chew it all up in Vegas (truly one of the greatest editing systems, for any money).
You might not even like it. Or you might love it. Either way, after you've done a couple of short pieces, you'll have a much better idea of what you Really need, camerawise.

Thanks for the encouraging words - Nice to hear the experiences of another still shooter gone video. I became motivated to shoot video from reading Dirck Halstead's commentary called the Platypus papers [http://dirckhalstead.org/platypus/platypus.html] - it made for an interesting read and an insightful commentary on the change of the profession of photojournalism and the industry as a whole. I have actually become bored with shooting stills, hence another reason to learn to tell a story with a video camera.

Cliff Etzel

Here's another n00b question:

I am comparing the SONY TRV250 and TRV350 Digital 8 cameras - they both have exactly the same specs except for 2: The 350 has (Super) Nightshot and also records in MPEG EX format - the TRV250 doesn't have these two features.

Do I need these features that warrents the extra $100.00? If I do, what circumstances would I need use them?

TIA,

Cliff

You don't need these features. V4 will permit you to export .mpg files. Nightshot is crap unless you want to prove that your wife cheats on you!
I would definitly encourage 3ccd's (something like VX2000 or TRV 950) as underwater conditions are not always optimal.
But it is more $$$. I would consider Sony's TRV-17 (MiniDV) as it has manual controls over aperture and focus and analogue pass threw. You DON'T want a camera that lacks manual controls, especially if you come from the still world.
Same tip applies to D8.

Gilles

It wouldn't be worth it to me, but that's just me. My Sony TRV8 miniDV camera has nightshot and it produces a b/w image in low light with lots of noise. I've only used the footage once, when the choir tour I was shooting visited some caves here in Oregon. Aside from the novelty factor, it's not worth much to me. One can accomplish something sort of similar by just slowing down the capture framerate (1/8th, 1/4th sec) in normal mode.

I don't know what the MPEG capture mode does, but since it is peripheral to the tried-and-true DV format, I'd probably fiddle with it to learn what it does, and then leave it alone.

Again, just my opinion. I'd probably buy a second battery with the $100.

Hey riredale - I'm in Oregon too - Eugene to be exact.

The TRV-17 falls within my price range and is MiniDV - thanks for the tip Gilles - I may already be convinced, expecially since it has manual override features I would really want to use.

Thanks,

Cliff

Brian (Arks00): Were you involved in "Lasting Love"?

In about a month I'll be in LA taping an interview with author Ray Bradbury. Long story how it came about but I've known him for over ten years. Finally asked to do an interview and got an invite to his home. This video is for a special event. I plan on integrating a number of digital stills and perhaps some prior footage for which he has given us a release. Have done a number of tests with Vegas 3.0 and am sure that 4.0 will be plenty stable enough by the project target date of early November.

Anyway, just curious. The promo bit about Lasting Love was terrific to read. I changed careers 25 years ago, moving away from video and film production. Now I can blow that stuff away with miniDV, Vegas, and my multitrack digital studio gear in my little project studio. Makes most Sci-Fi seem tame.

Wayne Munn, ASPP