OT: Disc Printing is about to get really cool!

Jsnkc wrote on 1/12/2004, 12:54 PM
HP announces LightScribe direct disc labeling
Monday, 12 January 2004

LightScribe Direct Disc Labeling is a new technology, invented by HP, that enables CD and DVD images and disc labels to be etched onto discs using the same drive that is used to burn the data.
The technology requires three elements to deliver lasting, silkscreen-qualitylabels: 1) a LightScribe-enabled optical disc drive, 2) LightScribe compatible media, and 3) LightScribe-supported software applications. HP’s intent is to create a market standard by licensing LightScribe to manufacturers in the PC and consumer electronics markets, including optical disc drive manufacturers, media manufacturers, software providers and PC and consumer electronics brands.

LightScribe Direct Disc Labeling is a complete system that, with modification to existing hardware, software and media, enables consumers to burn labels directly on their discs using the drive’s existing laser. LightScribe licensees receive access to enabling technology, and LightScribe licensing requirements and component compliance testing ensure system compatibility. Licensed components will carry the LightScribe trademark so consumers can quickly identify LightScribe-enabled drives, media and software.

A typical label-burning scenario might start with the consumer burning music tracks to a disc. During the data mastering operation, the software collects information that appears in a preview of an automatically generated disc label design. When the consumer has finished burning his music, the system verifies that the disc is a LightScribe disc. If the consumer approves the preview label design, he launches the etching operation, removes the disc from the drive, flips it over and reloads it label side down.

The system collects additional information from the drive and uses it in conjunction with the disc information to create the circular image file. The system sends the labelling commands to the drive, which the drive uses to direct the laser to write the disc label. The finished, labelled disc is ejected automatically.

Comments

farss wrote on 1/12/2004, 1:30 PM
Not that exciting really.
Yamaha had a drive that would do what I suspect is much the same thing. It could write text and graphics into any unused portion of a CD. Seems to have died from lack of interest.
Jsnkc wrote on 1/12/2004, 2:55 PM
Yeah, but that is on the burnable side of the CD, not the actual label for the CD.
farss wrote on 1/12/2004, 4:04 PM
That's true.
I liked the idea of Disk Tattoo and nearly bought the drive but I was waiting to for them to fix up other issues with it and the they seemed to have stopped making it.

Somehow though I don't think it will rival the results of printing onto the surface of the CD / DVD. Obviously you'll need special media and burner, think I'll stick with my inkjet although I do like the idea.
john-beale wrote on 1/12/2004, 6:15 PM
If you could get permanent, waterproof, high-contrast labelling that would be interesting, even though I'm sure it would be monochrome. Obviously the write laser is capable of more resolution than needed for labelling purposes, although I wonder if it would take as long to write the label as to burn the data side of the disk.

Since you need some kind of self-developing photosensitive layer on top for this process to work, I wonder about permanence if the disk is exposed to light. Thermal paper as used in many cash registers will fade quickly when exposed to sunlight or moderate heat.

I use the Epson 960 inkjet to label (inkjet printable) DVDs now. It is full color and reasonably fast, but the image contrast and color saturation isn't as good as it is on paper, and it the result is not waterproof.
craftech wrote on 1/12/2004, 6:56 PM
I use the Epson 960 inkjet to label (inkjet printable) DVDs now. It is full color and reasonably fast, but the image contrast and color saturation isn't as good as it is on paper, and it the result is not waterproof.
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I just bought a new Epson R300 and it does the same thing. What I have done to improve the way it looks is to send it through a second time. First time set for average coverage and the second time at 2 steps below that. It actually looks good as long as is doesn't get wet. Have been unable to adjust it to print dead center though. Fairly close, but not dead center.
Too bad Canon won't sell it's CD printers in the United States.

John
farss wrote on 1/12/2004, 7:00 PM
I'm going to look for a spray on lacquer, something like we used to use years ago on Letraset. That should solve the DVD inkjet printing problem.
craftech wrote on 1/12/2004, 7:22 PM
I tried an acrylic spray and it made it look worse. Maybe the lacquer will work. Keep us posted.

John
Hans Nyberg wrote on 1/12/2004, 8:42 PM
I've been using Rust-Oleum Laquer with excellent results. Apply two light coats a few minutes apart. It dries fast on its own, but if you're really in a hurry you can use a hairdryer on low setting to speed it up even more.
Geoff_Wood wrote on 1/13/2004, 2:59 AM
Just don't read your DVDs / CDs in the rain ....

geoff
john-beale wrote on 1/13/2004, 3:50 PM
It's not just about rain splashes- for example if you've just washed your hands and dried them, they are still slightly damp, or if it is hot and you are perspiring; then casually touching the DVD surface can smudge it. Just doesn't seem very "professional" for it to be so easily damaged.

My experiment with Krylon acrylic spray was not very satisfactory (rough surface finish, hard to get even coverage, still not complete smudge protection).

It seems there are some sprays made specifically for inkjet art: Jet Coat, Print Guard, Bulldog Ultra. Haven't tried any, but seems like an avenue to explore.

http://www.mcgpaper.com/watproofyour.html
http://www.inkjetart.com/lyson_spray.html
http://www.inkjetart.com/misc/bulldog.html


wcoxe1 wrote on 1/13/2004, 4:39 PM
Nice Idea, HP. But if it isn't color, I'll keep what I have. Try multi-layer burns which expose colors. Like in a cameo.
JJKizak wrote on 1/13/2004, 4:54 PM
John:
On the Epson 960 you have to use two hands to guide the tray into
the machine with the top cover open. The hand inside the machine presses the guide securely up against the machine and it comes out perfect every time on centering. But assumming you are already doing this I do not have any other answers. As far as coating the disc after printing the first thing I would try is PPG urethane clear. It seems to be agreeable with a lot of paints as I found out painting the vinyl interior of my 1969 Corvette. It stayed clear and with super gloss even after drying. Its still that way 10 years later.


JJK
craftech wrote on 1/13/2004, 6:58 PM
Thanks for the tips JJK

Regards,
John
farss wrote on 1/13/2004, 7:02 PM
Air cured urethanes might be worth a shot, I can get a spray can from Wattyl designed for protecting polished brass that might work OK. Getting it on dust free will be the hardest part.
craftech wrote on 1/13/2004, 7:37 PM
One of the purposes of spending the cash to get a direct CD printer is to avoid the labels which arguably cause compatibility problems for non-definitive reasons as discussed ad nauseum on this and other forums.

What effect does 1-2 layers of ink and a coat or two of urethane, lacquer, or acrylic spray have on playability? Has anyone considered that?

John
john-beale wrote on 1/13/2004, 10:08 PM
Part of the argument about paper labels is imbalance due to mis-centering, which has to do with the weight (mass) of the label.

I weighed some Neato Inkjet glossy labels and they measure an average of 0.995 grams each. (I have seen very thin, translucent labels recommended which surely weigh less, but I don't have any to measure.)

I then weighed a CD before and after printing the surface in the Epson 960 using two passes at +2 density (ink covered about 1/2 the surface of the disc). Registration was essentially perfect between passes, by the way. The ink weighed about 20 milligrams (my scale only reads to 10 mg). The printable CDs and DVD's I've measured weigh 16 to 17 grams so the ink is negligible in comparison.

I don't know how much a lacquer coat weighs, but I doubt it would approach a stick-on label.

I have no information on other factors, eg. if there is any chemical or physical interference between a spray coat and the disc.
farss wrote on 1/13/2004, 10:55 PM
Someone here posted some very useful information on just what the problem is with stick on labels. It's not the weight or even a balance issue, somone else tried sticking a lot of small labels all in the one spot on a DVD and it could still be read. I'd also point out that a lot of them come with quite thick screened on color covering only one half of the DVD.

Seems the issue is over time and heat the glue dries out and the label shrinks slightly. This causes the DVD to bow. As it spins it's not a contstant distance from the laser which cannot maintain focus.
craftech wrote on 1/14/2004, 5:05 AM
"Someone here posted some very useful information on just what the problem is with stick on labels. It's not the weight or even a balance issue, somone else tried sticking a lot of small labels all in the one spot on a DVD and it could still be read. I'd also point out that a lot of them come with quite thick screened on color covering only one half of the DVD.

Seems the issue is over time and heat the glue dries out and the label shrinks slightly. This causes the DVD to bow. As it spins it's not a contstant distance from the laser which cannot maintain focus. "
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Someone else here did a test with burned discs with and without labels and actually removed the labels after which they played in the tested set top players where they didn't play before he removed them. They had just been applied. ie: NOT over time.
As I said, no one has had a definitive explanation regarding the never ending labels vs non-labels issue. What makes it even more confusing are the variables......burner, burn speed, media (and who actually made it for them and when), burning program, authoring program, and finally labels vs non-labels.
It's about time the INDUSTRY did some research for a change since it affects us all.

John
Jay Gladwell wrote on 1/14/2004, 6:13 AM
I read an article in E-Media magazine recently that suggested with the advent of the latest label technology, there are no issues with readability as in the past.

Jay
Jsnkc wrote on 1/14/2004, 11:17 AM
Apart from all the problems with reading discs with paper labels, it just simply isn't a professional way to label your discs.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 1/14/2004, 2:08 PM
With all due respect, what's professional about using an inkjet printer? As was pointed out earlier, they can/do smear. That's not professional.

J--
Jsnkc wrote on 1/14/2004, 2:34 PM
Where did I say Inkjet printers are professional? I believe they are a lot more professional than paper labels, but I would still go with a Thermal or Silkscreen anyday.

But so what if Inkjet can smear, CD's can scratch so should we stop using those too? It's all about how you handle your discs. If you don't handle them properly then yes, you will have problems.
farss wrote on 1/14/2004, 2:42 PM
Jsnkc,
I agree, inkjet isn't the best solution, it's just better than sticking bits of paper on. I'll be looking at thermal but both the initial outlay and the running costs are pretty high. Screen printing is obviously the best but not viable for small runs.
Perhaps an inkjet that uses pigment based inks rather than dye based is the way to go but I haven't seen such a beast as yet.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 1/14/2004, 3:14 PM
I guess what I was getting at is one (inkjet) is about as professional as the other (labels). Each has its drawbacks and limitations. I think a great of the professional-look, or the lack thereof, can be attributed to the design of the DVD/CD label.

You're right, though, Jason, neither is as professional as screenprinting or thermal.
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"But so what if Inkjet can smear, CD's can scratch so should we stop using those too?"
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I never said don't use it. I simply reiterated something that someone else had mentioned in an ealier post. And I certainly wasn't implying that anyone who uses inkjet printers for DVDs or CDs is anything other than professional.
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"It's all about how you handle your discs. If you don't handle them properly then yes, you will have problems."
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I couldn't agree with you more. I'm extremely picky about how I handle things--discs, tapes, records, lenses, cameras, etc. Have you ever rented a DVD from someplace like BlockBuster? Most of them look like someone blew his nose on it then tossed on the floor and tap danced all over it for a few hours. Disgusting!

Hopefully, LightScribe, or something similar, will replace both the inkjet and the paper labels so we can provide truly professional-looking discs to our clients.

J--