OT: EX1 LCD Question

MH_Stevens wrote on 1/9/2008, 9:03 PM
There seems to be a lot of negativity on the board right now and not much of interest so I'm taking the opportunity of asking a question about the EX1's LCD.

I know it has about three times the pixels of my FX1 but the screen is the same size and I'm wondering on such a small screen does the extra resolution really make a big improvement and if the detail in the shadows and highlights is good enough to really judge a shot as well as an 8" field monitor?

Comments

Spot|DSE wrote on 1/9/2008, 9:47 PM
I know it has about three times the pixels of my FX1 but the screen is the same size and I'm wondering on such a small screen does the extra resolution really make a big improvement and if the detail in the shadows and highlights is good enough to really judge a shot as well as an 8" field monitor?
No. You'll do better sending luma only to a high def B/W monitor, or even composite out to the bigger monitor. This monitor is terrific, but...
farss wrote on 1/9/2008, 9:56 PM
It's uber sharp, much better than the FX1, well we've only got Z1s so that's what I'm judging it against.

It also is clearly viewable in direct sunlight, works better then if you turn the backlight off.

Can you use it to judge shadow and highlight detail with any precision. I don't think so. Also when you go from backlit to front lit there's a very big shift in how the display looks. I'd even have some doubts about using most LCD field monitors for judging shadow detail, they aren't that good in the blacks. There's no connection between size, resolution or dynamic range of a display as such.

Aside from that, the camera has lots of tweakability to preserve details at the ends of the curve but you do loose out in the middle I think.

Bob.
MH_Stevens wrote on 1/9/2008, 10:22 PM
Thanks: I really only shoot out in the wild and can't really carry a monitor anyway but as I said before I've just ordered a big laptop for editing and so with constant downloads to Vegas I should be able to monitor what happening. Just seeing if the EX1 will cure some of the problems I find with the FX1 (that has the same screen as the Z1) like getting good detail in the shadows. Interesting that Bob thinks the flexible gamma curves have such a trade-off. What are you finding Bob? When you select a curve that best for the ends does the middle look flat?
farss wrote on 1/9/2008, 11:30 PM
"When you select a curve that best for the ends does the middle look flat? "

Pretty much, I've been using Cine4 and it's good for our uber harsh summer sun. Haven't tried it up close and personal on faces but other have commented on how it's not so good. There's no magic one curve suits all. Not an EX1 issue, just the problem of 8bit video. Spending big dollars on a camera buys you more dynamic range by recording more than 8 bit and shifts the problem to post.

This article here:
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/oconnell_pete/cineon.php
really shows the difference you get with bigger dynamic range in what you record. Sorry it's all Cineon and AE but scroll down to the bottom and you'll see how two images that look identical can be anything but the same when it comes to post and grading or compositing.

Bob.
MH_Stevens wrote on 1/10/2008, 5:55 AM
Bob: I just got up from bed; it's about 5:30 here on the west coast and in the night I thought to ask you if when selecting the different gamma curves can you see an obvious difference on the LCD scree?

Mike
farss wrote on 1/10/2008, 5:59 AM
It's past midnight here!

And I gotta go work tomorrow but we got another EX1 there so I'll test it for you and get back to you. I suspect you'd certainly see the difference in the histograms.

Bob.
Spot|DSE wrote on 1/10/2008, 7:37 AM
Don't forget you can feed your HDV Rack on the laptop with the 1394 output from the camera....
MH_Stevens wrote on 1/10/2008, 8:01 AM
Douglas: From my reading of the brochures I get that the i-link/1394 out is only for HDV and not for the full res HD. It may be (?) one can monitor with DVRack in HDV while recording HD to SxS cards.
farss wrote on 1/10/2008, 7:20 PM
I just checked the LCD for you. You can certainly see the image change as you change the curves. I still would not rely on it for making critical decisions.

Bob.
Spot|DSE wrote on 1/10/2008, 7:32 PM
iLink output is for HDV only. You will not be able to perceive a difference between 25Mbps and 35Mbps for this particular monitoring need.
MH_Stevens wrote on 1/10/2008, 8:14 PM
Douglas: The problem as I see it is that if you are shooting HD (1440) the i-link does not have any output at all! It only outputs when you are shooting HDV or 720p. So when using this camera to its full potential (and if I got a EX1 to replace my FX1 why would I shoot 1440) DVRack is not usable, and this leads me to ask, how do you connect a field monitor?
farss wrote on 1/10/2008, 11:55 PM
You connect a field monitor to the HD SDI port.
The iLink port will output in SP (1440x1080) it will not output in HQ(1920x1080). The EX1 does not do "HDV" as such although the SP modes can be read by the standard HDV codecs.
In the end there's not a monster difference between the resolution in HQ and SP visually anyway. There's plenty of much more expensive cameras that don't record in 'FullHD' and I'd still have them over an FX1, if I could afford them. I'd think of it as being a bonus that's just the cream on the rest of the cake that the EX1 brings to the table.

Bob.
farss wrote on 1/11/2008, 1:49 AM
Just wanted to add one thing.
If you're taking the EX1 out into the desert sun, figure on needing a ND filter or two if you're shooting 24/25p and don't want to go beyond a 180deg shutter. We're regularly seeing the camera complain of too much light with the iris fully closed and ND2 engaged. If you want to keep your aperature at something sane you might need some serious ND filters, we're looking at around ND 1.5 or even ND 2.0, heck even a ND3 mightn't go astray!

One could argue the camera should have had another inbuilt ND filter. Obviously the designers didn't try this camera out down under.

Bob.
MH_Stevens wrote on 1/11/2008, 7:24 AM
Yes Bob, definitely needs a matte box. I find the FX1 too fast here during the middle of the day. Would an 8" clip on monitor like the isdsgn.com TCHD-01c allow you to see WYSIWYG that the LCD does not? Thinking of getting this monitor for the FX1.