OT: Experiences with DVDs and labels

riredale wrote on 12/26/2002, 6:48 PM

I finished a video of my daughter's choir tour through Oregon last summer, and just finished delivering DVD versions to choir families. Total video time was close to 100 minutes. Edited with Vegas Video (duh), authored with DVD Wise (powerful but with a rather crude User Interface), audio encoded with SoftEncode (AC-3). Bitrate was about 6.2Mb/sec and was compressed VBR via Cinemacraft. The whole project came in at 4.34GB, just under the 4.37GB limit. I didn't plan to have it that close; that's just how it worked out after throwing in some extra bonus material.

So far I've burned 30 DVD-R disks (Fujifilm 2X)in a Pioneer -04 drive and have applied labels (Meritline) using a Stomper tool. The labels were printed with an Epson C80 and the results were stunning. To my relief, every disk burned fine, even burning so close to the capacity limits.

Here's how the DVDs have fared so far: two users could not play them at all. I went to their homes and tried a non-label DVD-R, a different brand DVD-R, and two brands of DVD-RW. Nothing. I think one player was a 2-year-old Sony, and the other a Toshiba about 1 year old.

In my own home, we now have three players. The fancy one, a year-old progressive-scan Toshiba, will only play an unlabeled DVD-R or DVD-RW version. The other two units, however, are cheap models bought in the past month. They will play ANYTHING, label or not.

Intrigued, I took a couple of my DVD-R disks to Fry's Electronics and tried playing them on various players. All the floor units worked well. I then went into the demo rooms in the back, where the high-end stuff is kept. Three rooms, three different DVD players, and all three never even recognized the disks!

I have no doubt that, two years from now, every player will play anything, but for the moment, I am bemused that the fancy players are being clobbered by the cheap Apex units coming from China. I'll bet Apex already has a 25% market share.

Comments

snicholshms wrote on 12/26/2002, 8:11 PM

Riredale;
Interesting experience with DVD. Because of these problems, I "steer" my clients to VHS. I do not like to have to explain why a DVD that I produced doesn't work in their device. It is a no win situation. But if they want it..I do it.

I've even given away an $80.00 cheapie player with the DVD to satisfy a few clients. I use a cheap Mintek in my studio and a very low end progressive scan samsung with our home entertainment center. They both play VCDs as well.

Regarding labels...you might look at Burner (by Avery) labels and their applicator. The center holes are much smaller than most DVD/CD labels and that allows more room for graphics and lettering. They are very easy to align and apply to the DVD/CD.
Steve

TomG wrote on 12/26/2002, 8:49 PM

Steve,

What method do you use to get a good print on a VHS? What transfer method do you use?

Thanks,

TomG

sonicboom wrote on 12/26/2002, 10:05 PM

gang
i only use tdk and pioneer dvd-r's now
every player i have tried recognizes them
laptops computers (dvd drive) too
the cheap dvd-r's stink
i have been burned once---and that is once to many times for me
peace out
sbsbsbsbsb

snicholshms wrote on 12/26/2002, 10:41 PM

Tom:
Print to tape from either the Tools area or from the camera Icon in the Media Pool. I print to the SONY DSR11 tape deck (it's a MiniDV recorder/player). Then I play the tape in the SONY out to a VHS deck that records onto a VHS tape. Use firewire from my PC to the DSR11 and S-VHS from the DSR11 to my VHS deck.
Steve

riredale wrote on 12/27/2002, 12:34 AM

Steve:
You're right; this incompatibility thing is crazy. But I believe the situation is rapidly resolving itself. All it means is that anyone with an older player is going to have to get another one.

The desirability of DVD is inescapable. Recently I ran one of my DVDs on the big-screen TV while I had the VHS version of the same video running alongside. After syncing them up, I could easily switch video source from DVD to VHS and vice-versa. To my surprise, the audio quality, chroma, and brightness levels were pretty much identical. The BIG difference was in sharpness. In VHS, one child's head of hair was just a smear of brown, while in DVD, one could pick out strands and streaks. In addition, I included "Bonus Material" on the DVD that the VHS tape missed. Combined with a nice menu, the DVD really shines. Again, I just have to laugh that the little cheap players from China happily play anything thrown at them, while the fancy players choke. I suspect it has a lot to do with the design philosophy; Sony, Toshiba, and the others probably have custom drive mechanisms and older chipsets that are geared to the pure DVD-video standard, while Apex (China) probably just uses off-the-shelf DVD-ROM drives from PCs and chipsets designed in the past couple of years.

vonhosen wrote on 12/27/2002, 5:57 AM

Some more expensive players are good

Try a Pioneer DV-747A. Throws great images , progressive scan & plays every disc I throw at it DVD-R/-RW & DVD+R/+RW

JJKizak wrote on 12/27/2002, 8:45 AM

I use REEL DVD for the authoring software and have not had anyone say they
cannot play the DVD-R discs other than a few of the "hesitation stops" because
the data rate (7.3 megs CBR) is a bit pushy. The set tops they are currently
using---Toshiba, Apex, Go video, JVC, Sony, & Pioneer. The newer players
seem to play anything.

James J. Kizak

TomG wrote on 12/27/2002, 2:22 PM

Thanks, Steve.

I am not a video professional and the $2,800 price tag blew me away. Any cheaper way to get good quality on tape for home use?

vonhosen wrote on 12/27/2002, 2:28 PM

You could use the canopus ADVC-100

TomG wrote on 12/27/2002, 3:12 PM

Thanks, I've heard about Canopus before on this forum and took a look. I think the ADVC-100 is softward and card. I'm looking for a hardware recording device (or peocedure) to VHS. Right now I render to MPEG2, then play thru media player, thru a TView Micro adapter to a small TV with a VHS recorder. As you can imagine, the quality isn't all that good. I guess I could record back to my Sony digital Cam and then copy to a decent VHS recorder but then again I'm losing again when I re-record.

DGates wrote on 12/28/2002, 2:44 AM

If you record out via firewire to your Sony cam, you're not losing anything, quality-wise. That's what do, then I use that to record to VHS. Looks fine. I use that same Digital8 tape to make a DVD with my Pioneer standalone. The completed DVD looks pretty darn close to the original Mini-DV source tape.