OT: Google subpoenaed


Jay Gladwell wrote on 2/2/2006, 7:45 AM

... [the] Founding Fathers (also lawmakers)... wrote a constitution to keep future lawmakers within bounds.

Oops! Someone dropped the ball on this one, big time! LOL

Coursedesign wrote on 2/2/2006, 9:57 AM
Wow, then we'd have to start manufacturing our own goods, just like we used to. Now, wouldn't that be a shame?

We all wish, but that will happen to some extent no matter what happens with China.

I think U.S. manufacturing will rise again, with new companies using new methods for manufacturing where the higher wages here are made up for by more efficient technology and the absence of high shipping costs and associated in-transit delays. This will probably reach an at least significant level in 5-10 years.

There are also huge job opportunities in the U.S. in alternative fuels. I don't mean paying U.S. farmers four times the market price for their corn ethanol, but I am talking about the use of many different technologies that together could take a HUGE bite out of U.S. consumption of oil from the Middle East.

I am not saying this from interpreting the last swirls at the bottom of a whiskey bottle, but from looking at what is being done profitably already in many European countries.

Most of what they do, we can do, and we can add a little of our own yankee ingenuity. If you really want to see what we could do quickly today (with reduced inertia), just look at what was done in Sweden 10 years ago.

I recently got an old press clipping about one of the largest air force bases in Sweden using oil-based fuel only for their fighter jets. All their heating needs (and remember, Sweden is more like North Dakota than California) were taken care of by farmers delivering straw for free that they would have had to burn in the fields otherwise (which creates substantial pollution in the largest farming areas) to the air base at no charge. The air base generated heat by burning the straw in special furnaces that were extremely efficient and had scrubbers to catch the soot. The end result was picked up for free by the farmers next time they delivered straw for free, because the "waste" generated was a great crop fertilizer.

Lots more stuff implemented there, including many different biofuels including a special very fast-growing, small, and easy to harvest tree that can also help supply the nationwide network of biofuel "gas stations" that are mostly in a few big cities today but will cover every major highway and city in the country by 2010, according to current plans. They want oil independence as soon as possible, and it looks like they will get it.

Oil independence means a lot saved money in the long run (because the demand from developing countries is growing exponentially), and it means not having to accept dictatorships and terrorist supporting countries just because they have oil.

To boycott Cuba while going cap-in-hand to African and Asian dictators is also a moral issue. "White man speak with forked tongue," as somebody famously said. :O)
Jay Gladwell wrote on 2/2/2006, 12:15 PM

I think U.S. manufacturing will rise again,...

I hope you're right!

To boycott Cuba while going cap-in-hand to African and Asian dictators is also a moral issue. "White man speak with forked tongue," as somebody famously said.

Certainly doesn't make any sense, does it?

Spot|DSE wrote on 2/2/2006, 12:32 PM
Wow! This thread might be the second thread in the history of the fora, to go over 200 responses.

And not one bout of name calling. Kinda cool, actually.
DavidMcKnight wrote on 2/2/2006, 12:35 PM
Hey Douglas -

I'll give you exactly one guess why this didn't disinigrate into name-calling and thread-crapping


...it sure has been nice around here the past few months!
Lili wrote on 2/2/2006, 2:00 PM
Instead of "OT" for this type discussion, maybe we should adopt a more specific one - "PD", for "political debate", seeing as they're very often a hot topic.
winrockpost wrote on 2/2/2006, 2:05 PM
.................maybe we should adopt a more specific one - "PD", for "political debate", seeing as they're very often a hot topic.

I get a kick out of them, learn some stuff, laugh at some stuff,maybe add an uniformed smart remark or two, but really is fun reading, has nothing at all to do with Vegas, but what the hell, beats TV when bored .
Lili wrote on 2/3/2006, 7:57 AM
Have to agree - very entertaining indeed:-)
craftech wrote on 2/3/2006, 8:46 AM
John, et al, you may be interested in watching this video clip. It's from a documentary entitled "Monopoly Men" about the Federal Reserve and those who control it.

Did you realize the Federal Reserve was privately held?
Just got back to this Jay. Yes I did.
The "secret cabal governing the country" is something I have been extremely concerned about since shortly after 9/11 when I became aware of the extent to which the people running the country (that excludes Bush) were willing to go to self-serve at the expense of the American people. I was against the invasion of Iraq because I knew this group was hell bent on finding a plausable way to sell it to the public. Again, media complicity is what makes their deceit possible. The group they belong to is known as PNAC (The Project for A New American Century). If you look through the documents and position papers you will see names like Paul Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, Douglas Feith, John Bolton, Richard Armitage, Richard Perle, etc. All the people now running the country.
Have you heard the media even mention this "think tank"? Of course not. Their views and their history expose their ambitions. The media doesn't want that. The media could have easily pointed to articles, letters, and position papers that would have raised enough questions within the public to question the motives for invading Iraq. They don't even point to the website NOW for the same reason. PNAC has enough confidence in having the media in their pocket that they haven't even removed some of the incriminating papers that expose their pre-planning of the War in Iraq although SOME have been removed (I have copies). Their hammering away at Clinton for not going for regime change in Iraq is still there. Read the letters. These people resort to lying for virtually everything they do. It isn't possible to get away with that without media corroboration of the lies or a failure to report the truth or a failure to report on something that might be incriminating AT ALL.

Just the other day, in the New York Daily News an article appeared reporting that Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald the lead prosecutor in the CIA leak case, wrote that numerous White House emails from 2003 are missing from White House computer archives.
It got little or NO coverage in the media.

The corporate takeover of Iraq at the exepense of the Iraqi public has gotten little or no attention either.
US proconsul Paul Bremer enacted 100 orders when he was head of the occupation authority in Iraq.
Order 39 determined:
1. 200 Iraqi state companies would be privatized
2. Foreign companies could have complete control of Iraqi banks, factories and mines, and that these companies could transfer the profits outside of Iraq.
3. Reconstruction of the country was wholesale privatization of the economy and was heavily advertised in Europe.
4. These laws will NOT be reversed while US troops or military bases remain in the country. Aid for rebuilding the electricity and water services, the oil industry, and the legal and security systems will reside with the US Embassy for many years to come.
These 100 orders makeup the legal framework for superceding foreign exploitation of Iraq’s domestic market. They cover virtually everything in the Iraqi market. The economy, including Iraq’s trading regime, the mandate of the Central Bank, and regulations governing trade union activities. Collectively, they lay down the foundations for the real US objective in Iraq, apart from keeping control of the oil supply; namely the imposition of a neo-conservative capitalist economy controlled and run by US corporations.
Get this: Order 81 has the status of BINDING LAW over “patent industrial design, undisclosed information, integrated circuits and plant variety” The new US-imposed patent law introduces a system of monopoly rights over seeds. This is a takeover of Iraqi agriculture.
The rights granted to US plant breeding companies under this order include the exclusive right to produce, reproduce, sell, export, import and store the plant varieties covered by intellectual property right for the next 20-25 years. During this extended period nobody can plant or otherwise use plants, trees or vines without compensating the breeder.
In the name of agricultural reconstruction this new law deprives Iraqi farmers of their inherent right, exercised for the past 10,000 years in the fertile Mesopotamian arc, to save and replant seeds. It enables the penetration of Iraqi agriculture by Monsanto, Syngenta, Bayer, Dow Chemical and other corporate giants that control the global seed trade. Food sovereignty for the Iraqi people has therefore already been made near impossible by these new regulations.
This is merely one example of the pervasiveness of the orders left behind by Bremer. But their impact is largely concentrated in the near-monopolization by US corporations of the economic contracts awarded by the US-dominated Coalition Provisional Authority. Overwhelmingly they have been allocated to big US companies, notably Bechtel and on a no-bid basis — such as the contract to repair and operate oil wells awarded to the Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg, Brown and Root lobbied by the Bush’s first FEMA head – Joseph Allbaugh.
Whether this enforced takeover of the economy and imposed privatization across the board of all the main economic sectors is in accordance with international law is now much disputed. But whether it can be reversed when America holds all the military, political and economic cards is another matter. The only way for the US authorities to sidestep the potential conflict is to ensure that the new Iraqi Government is pliant enough not to press for full sovereignty. Paul Bremer thought of that too.
His Transitional Administrative Law (TAL) effectively gave the Kurds, the most pro-American section of the population, a veto over the new constitution because the TAL itself states that it can only be amended by a 75 per cent vote in parliament. The American public is unaware of what is going on but the Iraqis are. Much of the insurgency is a reaction to it despite the lies and the phony analysis by our media. Why do you think they have no faith in a US influenced election?
It was no accident that two members of PNAC were given positions to facilitate the above. Paul Wolfowitz was put in charge of the World Bank and John Bolton was put in charge of the United Nations (that's essentially the effect of a US ambassador, particularly in the UNSC due to the permanent veto power)
They are repeating the same type of select corporate takeover in the Gulf Coast to the extent our laws CURRENTLY allow, again with little or no media attention.
The media is the most important problem facing the United States today. Until they are forcibly broken up and the Fairness Doctrine or some form of it re-instated, the "conspiracy against the people of the United States" descrived in that film will continue unabated because the public will always be subjected to filtered news.