OT: Great danger when buying or selling a used car

Coursedesign wrote on 2/1/2009, 5:54 PM
Folding dealers shock car buyers with unpaid liens:

When a car buyer still owes money on a vehicle he is trading in, the dealer promises to pay off the outstanding loan, then resells the vehicle. But as more dealers go out of business, some are sticking consumers with the bill.

Lenders can then go after the previous owner who thought the debt was paid, or repossess the car from the new owner who assumed it came with clear title.

"It's devastating for people when it happens because they have two car payments and they can't afford them," said Rosemary Shahan, president of Consumers for Auto Reliability and Safety, a Sacramento-based nonprofit that lobbies on behalf of vehicle owners. "Their credit is destroyed for no fault of their own because the dealer defaulted."
[...]
Inga and Brian Randle of Elk Grove, a Sacramento suburb, are among those who got burned.
In 2006, they bought two 2001 Mercedes vehicles, a CLK430 convertible and an E320 sedan, finding out afterward that the small Sacramento dealer had not paid off the previous owners' liens.
Creditors called, and the Randles found they owed $40,000 on the old loans.
[...]
"The problem is once they've gone out of business, there's no money. You can't get blood from a turnip," Lobdell said.
[...]
Before they land in trouble, used-car buyers should insist on seeing a vehicle's title to make sure it has no liens, consumer advocates say. They also say buyers offering trade-ins should first pay off the loan themselves if possible, or deal only with high-volume dealers who are part of a larger auto group and thus are less likely to fold.
[...][/i]

Brrrr.

Comments

TheHappyFriar wrote on 2/1/2009, 6:42 PM
i'm confused: when I bought my used car, before I could get the title in my name the DMV required it be signed by both me & seller (in my case, a dealer), and the DMV confirmed if there was/was not any liens on it.

doesn't that happen everywhere?
ushere wrote on 2/1/2009, 6:46 PM
not quite the same system over here, but when buying ANYTHING s/h, car, camera, etc., one of the first things i do is checkout exactly who owns it!

in this 'madoff' age, it's simple common-sense NOT to trust anyone selling you something. then again, common sense is pretty uncommon nowadays....
Coursedesign wrote on 2/1/2009, 8:07 PM
I nearly got screwed three months after selling a [fully owned] car many years ago for cash.

What could possibly go wrong?

It appeared that the buyer had planned to commit a crime using the car he had just bought from me, making the police think I had done it.

He fudged the transfer papers so that they were invalid, meaning that I was still the owner.

Fortunately I didn't give him the keys immediately, and he had to skip town in his own truck before I could give them to him a few hours later.

So I had the car and the money, and I was saved from police interrogation to establish if I had been in the car when a crime had been committed.

Oh the joys of private car sales.

And either way, when buying a used car, don't forget to use the new national web registry that covers currently 2/3 of all vehicle titles (it should cover 100% by the end of the year). This allows you to check for salvage titles and other problems in a car's history (like having been flooded in New Orleans during Katrina, causing incurable mold problems).

How do you check out who owns a camera?

For serious broadcast gear, there are web sites where you check serial numbers against any reported thefts.

For anything else?

apit34356 wrote on 2/1/2009, 8:55 PM
"Creditors called, and the Randles found they owed $40,000 on the old loans." I'm unsure about CA, but usually the creditors have no legal claim against the Randles, just the cars, if the Randles did not assume any written debt.

Some courts have treated these "secret" debt transfers similar to stolen property being brought in "good faith" transaction, forcing creditors to first sue the original debtors before suing for the secured asset, if the asset is not properly titled, the creditor is screwed. Of course, more buyers that creditors screw up on the paperwork and lose their investment.

A whole cottage industry is built around selling/re-prepossession of used cars, especially on the low-end of the income scale. Many dealers and attys make their 6digit income off these individuals who need help instead on being robbed.
Coursedesign wrote on 2/1/2009, 9:04 PM
...usually the creditors have no legal claim against the Randles, just the cars

That's all they need. If the dealer doesn't make the payments on the original secured loan, the creditors can go pick up the cars.

Randles can sue the failed dealership, but alas the office furniture wasn't that expensive, and the original Pentium PCs didn't pick up any bids, so that only means they'll be out legal fees on top of everything else.

Jim H wrote on 2/1/2009, 9:32 PM
Lucky for me by the time I'm ready for a new car my leins have been paid off for many years. I guess you can say I drive old cars. Currenly two 1994s, one 1996, and one 2007.