Not to be spineless but I agree with both points of view here.

On one hand I could probably stay with Windows 7 x64 for quite a long time. I don't see us moving beyond 64bits... well, ever actually.

On the other hand Win 8 is actually cheaper and does a few (very few) things better, such as start up/shut down. It's just the GUI that an abomination.

- Mark

Sadly, I went through the entire, prep/backup, install, re-install EVERYTHING, authorize EVERYTHING, frustrated with the UI, go back to Win7 thing. Sigh.

The thing I hated was that there was no commitment to the UI. Is it a desktop, or is it the "formerly known as Metro" interface. I like the metro thing...but then GO with Metro, not some half-cocked semi-committed version of it.

The thing I LOVED about Win8 was the performance. Many of my most often used apps were rockets (like 25% more efficent/faster) kind of fast.

Sadly, the "here's a new interface, but there's something still familiar, but gimped, in case you hate it," thing just killed me. I'll put it on a spare box I have, but until MS figures out what it really wants to do with the interface, my main production unit will stay win7.

I haven't tried W8 yet but my computer workflow doesn't involve the OS very much. Seems like once I start the computer everything takes place in a 'non-windows' program. I do like being able to get into Control Panel and changing a few things to my liking. I'm not a big fan of the "swipe/iOS" for computers and hate when an OS moves or removes Power User options I like to use.

If you buy a new PC (especially laptop) of-the-shelf, you don't have a choice and have W8 pre-installed.

geoff

You always have a choice - unless it's first computer - that you have ever purchased - in your life.

But even then - it's easy to pick up a copy of Windows 7 - OEM's and others will keep it on sale until mid 2014.

And on top of all that, you have downgrade rights. When purchased with a new PC, the Windows 8 Pro license is like its predecessors, including the right to downgrade to Windows 7 Professional. When you buy a new PC with Windows 8 Pro installed, you can legally replace it with a copy of Windows 7 Professional.

VP

But if you are otherwise stuck with W8 on a new PC, this cures all the problems, no ? A 20 second download and 40 second install ! Must be netter than a half-hour W7/Xp reinstall.

OK doesn't fix unsupported devices, but that generally applied equally in W7.

geoff

i was a XP fan, everything worker fine. no reason to change.

then vegas alone forced me to go to win7.

i really didn't liked it. looks like all the time they make easier for "pc illiterate", but more annoying for the "advanced" users that use it.

i like snappy, i like fast, i don't want frisky stuff, effects, etc. what annoys me the most is to REMOVE a easy way to do something with a more crappy one.

but thankfully to some great people, the classic shell together with 7+ taskbar tweaker i can get win7 the way i wanted: clean, fast, useful.

later i will try win8, as the 2 programs i use to "fix" now works on win8 too, i can get it to works as i wanted ;P

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/18axp3fuaceiljpg/xlarge.jpg

I have to say, taskbar tweaker is the only thing that made Windows 7 useful enough for me to stop gnashing my teef and pulling out my hair. Now if only there was a way to bring the quick start menu bar back, Windows 7 would be somewhere close to the usability of XP.

"Pinning" is a fantastic example of taking something eminently useful and replacing it with something far worse.

Do you mean the Quick Launch Toolbar? If so - easy to get that back...

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-7/add-the-quick-launch-bar-to-the-taskbar-in-windows-7/

VP

Whoa!!!! Nice! Thank you VP! Absolutely perfect. :)

No more pinning at all.

No prob. Enjoy!

VP

@Kelly -- just curious, but what do you not like about pinning items to the task bar?

I strongly dislike the fact that pinned items move themselves around horizontally on their own as you open/close them or open/close other programs.

I strongly dislike that after a pinned item is open, you can't launch a second instance the same way that you launched the first.

Both of these items take away the ease and security of "it always works the same" and replace them with "go hunt and try to remember what state you were in". Inexcusable from a user interface.

The quickstart menu just sits there, exactly the same, day after day after day, unless *I* change it deliberately.

I've been an 'at-home' computer user since about 1977, starting out with a machine that had toggle switches for input and LEDs for addressing/data representation. And 256 BYTES of RAM. The next one had a hex keypad, a hex LED display, a couple of ROMS and 1k of RAM. Then I moved up to CP/M on an Apple II+ clone.

Finally, somewhat late to the party, I bought a 486 PC-compatible, as they were called in those days. With it came Windows 3.1, which I hated passionately. This thing was so confusing to somebody who grew up with machine code instructions or a command line that required exact syntax if you didn't want it to respond with a "?", or an error message. This Windows thing gave you 3 or 4 different ways to do everything. To close a window, for example, there was the File-Exit command, the X box in the upper right corner of the window, and the Alt-F4 key. How in the heck was I supposed to remember all of that? How annoying!!!!

Well, guess what? I kept at it and learned. This represented UI flexibility, and, although it was confusing at first, I came to understand and appreciate that this strategy resulted in enhanced usability. I now look back at my disdain for the Windows concept as naive and rigid.

That stated, my current stable of active machines, prior to the release date of Windows 8 in October, consisted of 3 computers running XP Home, 2 with XP Pro and a couple of iPads, which don't count for this discussion. I purchased a copy of Windows 7 Professional for my video computer, but haven't yet installed it.

Of those, I've updated two of the XP machines to Windows 8, using the very generous $40 upgrade offer. And I would like to do the same on my 3 remaining XP machines before the offer expires at the end of this month. The only thing holding me up is that I want to install new motherboards in two of these before updating the OS.

Why? According to nearly everything I've read, Windows 8 is demonstrably faster than Windows 7, and (I suspect that) 7 was faster than XP. There is no question that 8 is more secure than XP and that it will be supported long past the 2014 XP cutoff date.

With respect to the 'Hate 8' issue, it goes back to my 3.1 experience: To twist an old saying -- 'UN breeds contempt.' Yup -- I also winced at the 'Metro' interface. I looked for the 'Start' button. I thought it was ridiculous that it takes about 4 mouse clicks to shut down the computer. But, dammit, you just learn new ways of doing things and forget about it! It's really not that big a deal to me.

In fact, though I still spend 95% of my time in Windows 8 with the desktop active, I find it very convenient to bring the machine out of hibernation and just click the Netflix tab on the Metro screen and sit down on the exercise bike to work out while watching an episode of Monk while I work out. No need to go to the desktop for that!

I'm saving my energy for more worthy battles than this one...

I'm saving my energy for more worthy battles than this one...

I should say so - it probably took everything you had just to write that post :)

But sure 8 is fine for some and for many more - not so much.

For me and my requirement - it offers not a single worthwhile reason to move past Windows 7. And - trust me - I really wanted to like it - but it just ain't happening - especially from a media/Vegas/DAW perspective. The last thing I need is a "tablet" UI driving me insane when trying to work

I do find it it oddly ironic that you spend 95% of your time in the desktop - yet use Win 8. If that's the case - the desktop in 7 is 100% more effective.

It's too bad you skipped 7 - because you missed out on the very best OS Microsoft has ever made.

VP

The vaguary of not knowing at a glance if the app is actually running or not ?

geoff

"... and just click the Netflix tab on the Metro screen ..."

Yeah, double-clicking a desktop shortcut was so onerous !

;-)

geoff

I love 8. I really do not see what all the fuss is about. The start screen is just a full screen start button, with faster app searching. The under the hood stuff of 8 blows 7 out of the water. We had the old interface since 95....might be time for an upgrade.

If you can't deal with the change, it might be time to put down the mouse and pick up the walker.

Yes, I like 8 on my Surface tablet and find it quick as well as intuitive (but only once you've set aside the mouse instincts which have become inbred in us over the years!)

I agreee the touch screen idea is of litle practical use on a PC when your arm would have to be at full stretch to do anything. while still sitting at a sensible viewing distance from the screen. On the other hand you can use a mouse quite easily and set up a more traditional start menu if that's what you prefer. If, as everyone says, it's quicker to respond, (and my impressions from using the tablet seem to bear this out) then that has to be good, doesn't it? I know I'm giving serious thought to upgrading my PC from 7 to 8.

And if an old guy like me (76) can cope there must be hope for just about everyone:) :) :)

Richard

If you can't deal with the change, it might be time to put down the mouse and pick up the walker.

Jeez.

Glad it works for ya.

I do not think this has anything to do with dealing with "change" - more like 8 brings no relevant reason - to make it worth the hassle to move from 7 right now.

Bigger still - if 8 was really that good and that worthwhile - the world would be universally embracing it and we would all be rushing to use it.

But as of right now - maybe 3%-5% of Windows users - worldwide are on 8 - some by choice - many with zero choice and that should tell you how popular it really isn't.

VP

I made the transition from DOS to Win3.1 no problem and loved it.
Same with Win95 and XP.
Win7 is great except for two things.
First, when you select a folder in explorer it requires two clicks to open. This should be one click like every version of Windows before 7. Yes I know you can click the little triangle next to the folder once and it will open but it's a PITA.
Second, I don't like the Libraries. I'll set up my own tree structure thank you.

As for 8 I've only messed with it in stores and such and instantly don't like it. I'm sure I'll learn my way around it as I'll have to eventually but I'll be with 7 for quite a while. Perhaps the "correct" and non-touch interface will come back in Win9.