I know the answer, and I'll give it to you for free. It's not about $$, nor is it about winning. Or even competing. It's about doing what you need to do long enough to win on your own terms. When you have done so you will know it instantly, and you will feel no need to prove it to anyone else. And there will be no doubt. Do what you need to do and do it well. That's all it takes. Sometimes it takes a long time.

I'll make a quite different suggestion. The 'market' is only so big. So you can fight for market share or you can create your own market and have it all to yourself, at least for a while.
Try a bit of lateral thinking, what could you make a video of that no ones doing at the moment? You see all the competition is probably smugly spending x dollars on advertising but that only attracts people who want a video of something. So find something that could be enhanced with video, the more specialised the better.
That might mean having to do a bit of research so you can talk to the prospective clients in their language.
Here's a few areas to think about. Medical, dental, manufacturing. point of sale kiosks. Some of these need slightly more specialised gear, trying to shoot a video of surgical procedures is quite tricky but can pay well.
I'm sure you can come up with some other ideas.
Bob.

This has been my "intuitive" approach to business all my life.

Bob is correct, if you can see and hear it - it's a video! I'll turn my hand to any ANY video making that is legal, honest and decent AND within my scope and abilities with my kit, and it will take my business further - weddings? Now that IS something else!

I feel this video market is only NOW about to explode. And guess what? It wont be about HD or whatever . .it will be and will always be about creativity/ideas/relevance . . . get that right and you can almost shoot in analogue and push it out on a VHS! Now let the flaming begin! Sheer heresy! . . . And yes the market will decide. But it will be the market that will allow me to pick up SD work where HD could very well be over-priced - well, we'll see eh?

Look, I love the newsest and the "Best" - I adore the look and feel of HD. Presently it aint within my financial cycle. But I do know that my clients love the look and feel of the stuff I've done so far . . I'm hoping this will expand and along the lines I'm working. I DO know I'm gonna have to expand my ideas and cast my net of influence further than I do at the moment - no change there then!

Some people do demonstrations of software at exhibitions - others hire AV equipment - others again, write s/w for us lot! It is a mixed buffet for people in this trade - Let you into a secret: It is the same all over! - I've forgotten the many and varied differnt avenues I've been down. The various initiatives I've created and been involve in. Have I made loadsa money? Nope! Have I enjoyed it? - Mostly - yeah.

Find and/or create markets. When you do mine it, mine it and . . mine it! The seam WILL run out .. unless you supply the shovels, wheelbarrows and picks .. OR you explain how to use those same shovels, wheelbarrows and picks . . . . .

Best regards,

Grazie

Vegas gives you the tools to do just as good a job as onyone else. Just do it better and with more imagination.

Got that right Wobbly! . . .

Hi Dave,

I haven't read the other responses yet but I've looked at the two sites.

Hanson is what I like to call a Pufferfish. They seem to be inflating themselves. The site looks pretty awful.

VideoArts looks a lot better. They seem fairly high end but they're still very regional. If you close your eyes while playing their clips they sound like radio spots. Still, they've got a lot of polish.

Obviously, they have a base of talent. It's unlikely that one person is doing everything they do. You should call them up and ask if they rent the studio or the grip truck, and if they can provide crew. Just be straightforward and ask their rates. It's possible that they want to take entire jobs but I imagine if they've got a little truck and a little stage that they'd like to to rent them both when they can.

You can compete. The first thing to get over is the idea that you can't hire crew, or post production help. The second thing is that you havce to be willing to make up budgets and charge for your work. The third thing, after getting over the psychological impediments, is to put together a good reel, learn to make good presentations, and learn to present realistic budgets.

Think about the spot for NDSU. Spots for public agencies might be a good place to start because they may have a policy of soliciting bids on every job. You may make ten presentations, or thirty, but it's a good place top start.

Rob Mack

Okay, and now I've read the other responses. Those who went into specifics were right on. Those who dealt in platitutdes didn't have much to say, really.

Bob is right about research. It really helps to know a potential client's business and to show an ability to study. I can't tell you how many times I lit a medical video or interview where the producer/director/whatever really knew the client's business. And AZEdit is pretty right on with approach. Film and video production is a social and collaborative activity.

I'd reiterate my point about hiring people for services. You will need to focus on social interactions with clients, research, writing, and managing a production. It really helps to find people you can offload some tasks to. You don't need to be the 3D modeling expert-you can hire one. Nor do you need to light or shoot, unless these are your real loves.

Rob Mack

Rob - Understood. Grazie

I'm going to disagree with a lot of what's been said. Here's a little guy who wants to win in this business. This IS a business. I'll assume as he wants to win then he's not doing it for the love of it, he's doing it make a profit and he who makes the biggest profit wins.

I've got a few clients who've come to me after they've been to the big guys and frankly they prefer my work. Why do they prefer me, because I give them what they want. Pretty basic concept but if they're paying the bill I figure they have the right to decide.
Take one client, they had an idea in their heads, a simple video on how their product cleans toilets better than the competitions. The product is targeted at professional cleaners. They didn't need or want anything complicated. Clear shots of the product at work, intelligible audio and some basic music to fill in the dead spots. The last guy they had turned out a beautiful looking bit of video and totally lost the message and the client. He probably agonised over it for days, we did it in hours.
Other jobs I've done have been for artists, again they prefered and recommended me over other places simply because I did what they wanted, no arguments, no judgement. Sure I'll scream when they cross the limitations of the medium, they know that and appreciated it.
So this is the way to win, ignore what the big guys are doing, don't try to outdo them, focus on the markets that they're ignoring or alienating. Try to get lots of small jobs, preferably things that take less than a day each. This way if one goes pear shaped it's no big loss or if the client doesn't pay you can afford to write it off.
And whatever you do don't borrow money, if you fund everything yourself from the profits you build as you go, if it all falls over you're still OK, your stress levels will be much lower and your reputation intact.
Bob.

" . and he who makes the biggest profit wins" . oh! Go it! Grazie

What I look for

When I look for a Service I would usually ignore big expensive looking ads I would look for something that looks reasonably established and Competitive I would phone and If they are helpfull /Friendly without being Pushy AND ASK ME A lot of Questions to show how the Price is Reached I would value seeing Work already done and seeing how Successfull they appear to be if reasonably fairly Priced then I would go with this...

What I would avoid is Slick Ads with expensive Premises and Highly Professional People with PAs.... Also I would Avoid someone who quotes to Low and Pressures you into Making a Deal ...

The Problem is when that Moment someone decides they want a Service your Phone Number and AD Has to be There and waiting This Means a Reasonable Priced Ad in Local Papers Perhaps an AD in Churches also the Telephone Directories as well as Ads stuck with wedding dress makers and a Shop front ect ect ...

I would avoid Trying to outdo the Competition Im afraid some People will Lose a lot of Money to make sure you dont make any Just ignore...Be Fair and True and over time Should become established and make a Living...

Well, all I appreciate everything that you've been telling me. Some of it I knew, some of it I did, but you definately have given me some good info.

I have a passion in a specific area with video, but unfortunately it's not a very well paid deal. For the last few years now I've wanted to produce informational / update / fundrasing productions for missionaries (particularly in other countries). I have a bit of a niche doing video's for a local church that is now looking at hiring me PT. However most churches don't use a lot of video, nor do they like to pay for it. I've been looking at taking a small business loan to help me pick up a couple of Z-1's and enough gear to be able to do shooting in varying locations. (I.E. lighting gear, and a second tripod with another Bogen 503 head, as well as wirless mics and recievers.) - $15K is somewhere around what I'm looking at (hoping that it will give me money to pay back for a little while).

I am working on producing some promo commercials for the jewelry store that my wife and I shopped at (friends of the family), because they gave us the family discount (and that was a sweet deal).

Planning on doing weddings for money to pay bills with my wife (knowing a lot of smaller photographers in town gives me a very good in there). I'm also trying to work for contract hire work with other production companies offering HDV as a selling point, that is for the future at least.

I've been producing videos with churches for sometime now (few years), and definately have an in with that market. I've done things for local and state events. I always, always remember that I'm being hired, not the man in charge who's gonna tell them what they want. I do not however know much in the way of running quotes. (I think I'm just finally learning just how long things can really take, or at least I was when I was using the VT2 system at one of the churches that I worked at. Now that I'm using Vegas, it's not taking anywhere near as long.)

Thanks for all the input,

I'm still not sure about taking the loan, but I don't really have any camera equipment to work with of my own, I have been "renting" a DVX100 for the last couple of jobs that I did, as they were for people other than the church that contracts me out on a pretty regular basis.

Dave

Dave, just my opinion, but would I strongly advise against talking out any kind of loan for a brand new video business. If you're just starting, as you are, with no customer/client base to draw on, i.e., if you're not producing within 30 days (that translates to making money) after you get the loan, how will you pay it back? Bob has it right, pay as you go. Build up to it.

Jay

Or, look at it another way. If you have a line of credit available to you and it doesn't cost anything to keep the line of credit, that's good. Just use it when you have to.

Specifically, if you've got a contract for a job then you can borrow from the line of credit against the revenue from that job. This at leasts gets you money to work with until you get final payment.

Going into debt beyond your assets, and a contract is an asset, is a pretty big risk and a disastrous habit.

I don't think that $15k is much of a startup cost-if you've got real prospects. If you've got regular clients and some income stream already then it's not unreasonable. (It would be too much for me, but I have a full time job and no time left to take freelance gigs that I could write off the expense against)

Use the line of credit to cover rentals. Make a profit and then invest the profit into new gear.

As far as dealing with clients, be honest, be positive, say yes more than no, and be generous when it doesn't cost you anything. And do your homework on them.

Rob Mack

Hi Dave,

We chatted briefly in the cafe earlier this week.
If this is your passion,---go for it.
I made the move six months ago at the age of 55 after 33 years as a journalist.
Sure it's scary. I'm still in the growing phase.
There is risk involved in every thing that's worthwhile.
But if you love making video,---you'll be good at it,---and if you're good at it your will be a success.
Do what you were made for. Do what motives you. What quickens your heart and gives you a buzz.
Get in touch with every missions organization you can think of if thats where you want to work.
Churches and parachurch organizations are always producing video for any number of things,---church planting, marriage enrichment, missions,
social outreach.
Even a video for a Christmas program at your church announces to everyone that you are a videographer and a good one.
Real esate agents and financial planners like to have video of themselves streamed onto the webistes. Resorts want video tours and promotional DVDs.
Then there's the area of training and safety films.
Manufacutring companies need videos for trade shows.
Join the Chamber of Commerce if you don't already belong and start networking. People will tell people that you do video.

Dan