> For the record I said: customer owns music, customer owns picts, customer pays for service of personal use only combination then there is no problem.

I wish that were true but there is a problem because the service he is running is a commercial business so fair use doesn’t apply. I’m obviously not going to convince you that it is a copyright violation and since neither of us are lawyers it is senseless to continue to debate it. We can agree to disagree.

I’ll just say that if I were williamconifer, I would consult a copyright attorney before I post photomontages with copyrighted music on the Internet to advertise my business. It obviously attracted the wrong type of attention in this thread. Peace.

~jr

Actually not very original.

From the poem Insominia, by James Thompson

"Death's ghastly aureole,
Pregnant with overpowering fascination,
Commanding by repulsive instigation,
Despair's envenomed anodyne to tempt the Soul"

How deliciously appropriate for someone bitching about copyright violations to appear to have "borrowed" someone else's words and claim them as original.

ROTFLMAO!

"since neither of us are lawyers"

I said I as not his lawyer. It really does not matter because asking a copyright lawyer is something is fair use is about like asking a rapper if a song has too much bass. Not many lawyers making a living protecting fair use, which is why it is amazing that the courts has consistently protected fair use.

"I would consult a copyright attorney before I post photomontages with copyrighted music on the Internet to advertise my business."

Good advice.

dB

I usually stay out of these religious debates. Everyone knows you’re not supposed to cross the street on a red light, but most people have jay walked at some time in their lives and most have “gotten away” with it. To put the use of copyrighted music in another light, think about the opposite situation… would you even consider making video montages that consist of scenes from well-known movies like Gone With The Wind, The Godfather, Saturday Night Fever (even if you “own” those DVDs) with your own audio tracks from your kid’s play or vacation to Disney World? (or posting such services on a Website?) Probably not, but that illustrates the value of the music. Sure, the production values are greatly enhanced for wedding montages, etc, just as if you managed to get a couple of famous movie stars to be in the video, get some million dollar effects, wardrobe, lighting, and James Cameron to direct.

Unfortunately, the music industry has made it so onerous, expensive, and complicated to obtain reasonable licenses that even Hollywood rarely uses “original” songs as recorded by “original” artists.

Since these threads seem to take on a life of their own, I may as well share some more of my views. For starters, the music industry is its own worse enemy. As its been said already, "the industry", not the individual artists are usually the villains and the reason things have gotten so screwy. That said, some "artists" do take a overly protective, even maniacal and frantic view. So I thought it would be funny to illustrate how absurd such narrow minded views actually are by comparing it to several everyday items in the real world, which by the way few artists actually live in.

Imagine how people would laugh their asses off if the people that built your sofa somehow managed to first get some law enacted then enforced that prevented you from moving YOUR sofa from room to room or allowing anyone over 250 pounds to sit on it without their express written permission.

How about the butcher at your local supermarket insisiting that that roast you just bought must be served medium rare and not eaten before 6PM and you couldn't eat more than two slices.

How would your wife feel if she saw a dress she liked and they wouldn't sell it to her because the clerk said it wasn't the right style for her body type or that she would have to lose twenty pounds first, then get a release signed by her doctor.

Are these absurd ideas? Of course! That's the whole point. Yet "artists" think that maybe a hour of their time "creating" some song, should thereafter never be altered, never edited or changed in any way, demand laws be enacted that prohibit the purchaser from using the product he paid for as he sees fit, and rather severely limit its use to only how the "creator" deems appropriate. What a load of crap, yet that's pretty close to how things are.

Its even got more crazy that now electronic devices by law are prohibited from making backup copies as you see fit and instead are severely limited based on what some giant record company wants to hopefully further enrich itself. Remember, you paid cold hard cash for that CD, probably paying an inflated price and getting a dozen songs you didn't want just to get the one or two songs you were interested in. The artist got fair value based on his negotiating skills, so did the recording studio and the producer and everyone else involved, but they think that anyone willing to pay some 'use fee' to use the work must first jump through hoops to use the material and pay again and again and get a variety of releases from various people, companies. And you got to ask why Joe Average thumbs his nose at the recording industry or why Napster and other companies like it were such a huge success? One simple reason: The entire industry runs on greed. Joe Average gets screwed, and Joe Average is getting pretty pissed off over how screwed up things are. No matter how much profits the recording industry racks up they have their hands in your pocket to try and steal more. Based on that reality is it any wonder handry anybody thinks twice "borrowing" some songs to add to some slideshow, if they already have the songs on some record or CD and have already paid for their use. When will the greed of the music industry stop? Answer: When hell freezes over.

It would be nice if it were as easy to duplicate tanks of gasoline at home as it is to rip CDs and distribute them on the Internet. Once the oil companies exhaust all the dead dinosaur remains from the earth, gas stations will be as obsolete as record stores.

BB, you must shop at the same grocery store as me. Just by asking, I was able to get permission from the butcher to prepare the roast my own way; but when the check-out clerk rang up my bottle of wine, I was informed that I would need a sync license to serve the wine with dinner. It was my wife’s birthday and I had picked out her favorite wine for the memorable occasion. Sadly, there was no one in the store who could tell me how to acquire the requisite license, so I put the wine back and went with beer instead.

JL

You know what they say about beer.... you can't buy it, you can only rent it.

Couple good ones guys. <wink>

I just got back from McDonalds, wanted to try their new BBQ sauce with their chicken selects. Pretty good, spicy, but not too spicy. As I usually do, I asked for a extra sauce. Imagine if they charged extra for it*, imagine, if I needed to get permission to get two packets or that the manager was roaming around the parking lot and noticed I dipped some of my fries in the BBQ sauce was was designed for the chicken and grabbed it out of my hand scolding me you don't have a sync license or permission to use the sauce in a non appoved manner.

* funny, but true... on a recent road trip stopped at a Popeye's chicken. Got a "dinner" came with a roll. Got to the table, noticed no butter. So I walk up to the counter and polietly ask for a couple pads of butter. That will be 4 cents extra please. I asked if they wanted their plastic knife and folk back when I was finished.

Jeez. I had no idea my comments were going to aggravate so many people. I've deleted my original replies to this thread and will keep my opinions to myself in the future.

Jim,

You're opinion, as everyone's, is appreciated here. One of the reasons this is a great forum is that folks like you aren't bullied into not sharing our opinions. Sure it's get's passionate, or in my case a bit pissy, but all in all there is a great deal of respect paid to all and that's a hell of a lot more than most sites.

Honestly, despite the heat of the thread I was honored to have so many of the regulars chime in.

Hey JR,
You mentioned me making a living off the photo montages; being my aim is to "do it right by my client", I might as well filp burgers at Wendy's than make a living at photo montage work. *winks* Honestly, if the photo montage side of things had to stand on it's own, it wouldn't. But it pushes my creative growth which enhances so many other parts of my life.

Thanks again folks for all the feedback. Can I get a Group Hug??!!

jack