VP - I thought maybe I was losing my mind on this. So it takes Vista few days to "learn" how my particular system works. That I didn't realize - Today is another slow day - guess I'll take the Vista challenge again - and give it some time to learn which apps I use most.

No problem. Vista will settle into an optimized memory allocation scheme as it builds up data on what you use and when you use it.

Right now on my main DAW - I have had Vista 64 rolling for at least a month now and I always use the same three or four programs and they all hammer away at light speed when loading and operating.

Takes a bit of getting used to - especially when coming from the XP way of memory management which is "wait until user click something - then allocate RAM to it."

Took me weeks to really get a grip on it...but now - it's really solid.

Let us know how it goes for you.

Cheers!

VP

Strange. I have not found that at all. Been running Vista Ultimate for more than a year now and have not had so much as one blue screen. The only glitch I have seen in ultimate is that some of the folders forget their view settings on occasion, and that's been documented quite a few times now... but overall it's far more stable than XP ever was.

Well - my reports come from super secret beta testing that I have been involved in - and most of the glitches and blue screens came from drivers and "other stuff". Don't get me wrong - Ultimate was rock solid when it didn't encounter any shoddy code...

I do agree that ultimate does come with some extra services running but it's not really an issue since they can be turned off by the user any time.

Business doesn't even install a lot of the extras - again - I am sure they are both just as solid.

VP

As this was asked in the Vegas forum just want to point out that Vegas 7 is solid and only is supported on XP (NOT Vista) Version 8.xx has caused many people problems.

As this was asked in the Vegas forum just want to point out that Vegas 7 is solid and only is supported on XP (NOT Vista) Version 8.xx has caused many people problems.

I will just add that Vegas 7.0d/7.0e flies and is rock solid on Vista 64 as well.

Speaking of optimizing Vista, does anyone have a site for recommendations on how to do that? I found this http://www.audioforums.com/resources/windows-xp-optimization.htmlone[/link] for XP, but I haven't looked to see if they offer any similar tips for Vista. I guess I should do that...

But if anyone knows of any such recommendations to optimize Vista for DAW applications (video would be prety much the same, I presume...), then I'd love to know about them. The XP optimization makes a big difference, in my experience.

TB

I have never had a blue screen in Vista 64 bit Ultimate, but I had some episodes with bad (old) Gigabyte motherboard raid drivers, but never a blue screen.
JJK

After reading this thread, I am convinced that it is time to move-up to Vista 64-bit! Ok, there will be some restrictions, but I use Cubase for my DAW which now has a 64-bit version, and my AVCHD is choking in my 32-bitland XP (old machine) using SV 8c. If I am going to go for it, I am going to build the biggest machine you guys have ever seen...how about this:

- Dual Intel Nahalem (Core i7) processors
- Tylersberg mobo (only safe choice for now)
- 8GB of DDR3-1600 CL7/8 of memory to start
- 1 SSD drive for OS & programs
- 1 SSD for data
- RAID of 15k SAS drives for archive (FibreChannel connected for remote placement...they are noisy)
- Killer video card (notice I am undecided as of yet)
- 64-bit Vista Ultimate tuned for performance
- Suntan lotion & asbestos underwear to protect from the radiation
- Oh yeah, nitrogen chilled beer to enjoy my new video editing machine...

A machine similar to this was tested (at a secret location) and boots full of startup apps in 7 seconds!!!

So now if my SV project crashes due to the many issues I have read about on these forums...at least it will happen in a couple of seconds instead of waiting half of the night before I realize the next day that I have to tweak and restart the render of a complex project with huge JPG files, massive blur, multiple threads, etc, etc. :)

What's something like this *cost*?

I am just dying to know...

TB

Well...you really don't want to know. Let's put it this way...if you have children, you may want to find out how much you can get for them on the open market, 'cause you will probably have to sell everything you own to build one of these.

Ok, probably about $8-12k with killer monitor. If it was for your business, you could easily justify something like this as an expense because it seriously improves efficiency, but it's not for my business. I just want to be the only guy on my block to have one of these.

Well, seeing as how a Mac Pro with about 8GB RAM costs almost $6000 the last I priced it, $8000 doesn't seem too terribly bad. Don't get me wrong--I've had a Powerbook G4 a couple years ago, and it was great. But the Mac machines are really pricey, and for what you can build a PC for, it seems as though you get more bang for the buck. It's certainly more easily upgraded, from what I know about Macs.

So I say go for it--be the first on your block (and last, most likely) to own one of these bad boys. I would love to have a dual quad core machine, as that's the only real thing that a Mac Pro has on the machine I just built a couple months ago.

Just post some pictures of it going together!

TB

Core i7 processors will not be released to the public until November, and I should be able to get a hold of a good matched set by the end of this year. I'll post pics of the build. I have never had a liquid-cooled machine before, so it should be pretty interesting. Between the nitrogen chilled beer and pricey components, it should be a blast.

I am a software guy, but I like to dabble with the hardware. The real technical heavy lifting will be done by a German import friend of mine that is the smartest guy I know. He will be solving the real problems that we come up against during the build.

I used Vista early on in its life, and it was dire. I've loaded Home Basic (with SP1) on to a laptop, and it's worse than Windows XP.

Last week I loaded XP x64 onto my desktop PC, and it was OK. Neither better nor worse than XP 32-bit. It could use all my RAM, but Vegas 8.1 was not significantly fast than 8.0c (tested with the new Rendertest .veg file). XP x64 would constantly blue-screen when examining fonts, though.

Yesterday I downloaded and Vista Ultimate x64 from The Ultimate Steal, and I'm using it now. And all I can say is 'Wow!' Even with just 4GB RAM it flies. It is seriously fast; I can only imagine what it would be like with 8 GB.

No driver problems, no non-recognised hardware. Everything is running very smoothly.

I have to finish tweaking it, but even with everything switched on it's fast and stable. £40 well spent!

I bought Vista Home Premium, as I recall. I see now that an upgrade to Ultimate is $220 USD...wow. That'd be a total of $330 for an OS! Ouch.

TB

I bought Ultimate from The Ultimate Steal (google it). It cost just £40/$60 for the full retail version, but you do have to have an academic address - .edu in the US, .ac.uk in the UK.

I figured out how to make a bootable disk from the downloaded files, and the rest was easy.

I certainly would not pay the full retail price; I'd just choose the cheapest 64 bit version.

Well, I have to say my experience with Vista 64 is more than my first time when Vista was first released. I have to say other than the quirks from installing Acid Pro 4 I've been pleasantly surprised at how fast it is on both my desktop and laptop.

Thanks to those who recommended I give it another try - it seems to have lived up to what you have said - so far ;)

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt | SoloVJ blog

seeing as how a Mac Pro with about 8GB RAM costs almost $6000 the last I priced it, $8000 doesn't seem too terribly bad. Don't get me wrong--I've had a Powerbook G4 a couple years ago, and it was great. But the Mac machines are really pricey, and for what you can build a PC for, it seems as though you get more bang for the buck. It's certainly more easily upgraded, from what I know about Macs.

Here in the U.S., I paid $3200 for an 8-core Mac Pro with 10GB RAM a few months ago. All latest model etc.
I speced the basic 2GB RAM and bought 8GB RAM from OWC (macsales.com) which is absolutely same spec as Apple's own and works flawlessly.

I also bought an HP xw8600 workstation with nearly identical specs. This cost $3500, after much haggling.

Mac Pro should not be compared to a consumer PC, but to a PC workstation.

Those who believe there is no difference between a consumer PC and a PC workstation can of course save a lot of money.

...and wonder how on earth Dreamworks and all the other studios can be so stupid that they pay more than $500 for their "PCs"....

Btw, I'm finding the Mac Pro easier to upgrade than any PC.

My HP PC workstation is easier than any PC I have ever used (including other workstations), but the Mac Pro is a step above that in ease and speed of upgrading. Swapping out drives and cards is faster and needs no tools.

"Btw, I'm finding the Mac Pro easier to upgrade than any PC. "

Yeah... after you've waited the extra 4 months for the special order stuff to come in. I have at least 6 computer shops in my area and NONE of them stock anything that has to do with Mac. PC parts however litter the shelves.

Come on Course... let's not start this rubbish again.

My biggest gripe is the fact that Apple.FCS has more or less taken over in small/medium production houses and unless you're flush with cash to pay for the worlds largest dongle for FCS, you're more or less SOL.

Entities like The Travel Channel Academy only teach Final Cut, and I've tried to convince the founder, Michael Rosenblum, that what he's teaching the students - which is content for the web - is much better suited for Vegas. But he comes from having worked with numerous broadcast venues and is probably locked into the idea of Final Cut from a Broadcast Production standpoint.

I had another producer tell me that if anyone was to submit ANY content to them, they would accept minimum Avid or Final Cut Edit files ONLY. They said they wanted nothing to do with Vegas nor PPro edit files.

Seems to me, the idea of working in Vegas is one of constant futility if you want to try and accomplish something besides shooting events and such. The adage "you gotta pay if you wanna play" seems to be the secret pass phrase to supposedly play with the big boys.

Sorry for the rant....

Cliff Etzel - Solo Video Journalist
bluprojekt | solo video journalism blog

CourseDesign: I am a PC guy...always have been...always will be. I was a software developer...for PC...not for MAC.

Blueprojekt: I agree. Good buddy of my is a Hollywood big budget blockbuster guy, and FC is all they will use anymore.

Good news is, I make video for myself, friends, web and the like. But I wish FC were available on PC so I could really try it out and make a decision based on the software and not on the platform. Well, I am a PC guy, so here I am. I love SV and will build the killer platform to overcome my current woes.

I have an under-gunned P4 running XP, and my plan is to build the monster machine...nice to make a leap performance every few years. I didn't make the jump to bigger hardware before, because SV ran just fine with HDV, and I could batch my renders overnight. All seemed good until I bought a Canon HF-11 and met AVCHD for the first time.

I just want to cry! Feedback from this thread and others about AVCHD have convinced me build a new machine using the new Intel Core i7 processor and try Vista 64. My plan WAS to build a dual proc Xeon Core i7 machine, but ends up won't really be able to get my hands on good mobo and matched CPUs until Jan/probably Feb 2009. When the early rush on the dual Xeon Core i7 dies down, I'll build the real monster.

My plan NOW is to go for a single CPU mobo (water cooled) and the Intel Core i7, 12GB DDR3 RAM, 2 - SSDs and 1 - 15k SAS drive, Vista 64 Business (after reading about Ultimate here) and a killer video card. I have a 30" monitor that requires a dual DVI video card, and have not made my decision yet for a video card.

Do you folks have any suggestions for a dual DVI video card that fits the profile of a monster machine, that will be good for most high-res editing/viewing situations without just throwing away money for a gamer-type card. I am not a gamer.

How difficult is FCP to learn, as compared to Vegas...? It's not that I am a PC or a Mac guy, but quite frankly I just thought that I could get more bang for the buck with a PC. But if SONAR and Vegas were PC/Mac applications, then I would probably have indeed gone with a Mac Pro for the studio. I suppose one could argue for that anyway, given that you can run either OS on the Intel architecture. But the point is that the software I prefer to use right now is on the Windows platform, so there's no real need to spend the money on a Mac just in case I decide to learn FCP at some point. I was surprised to see the $3200 price for that kind of a system though--I never got close to that low of a price. Of course I didn't shop around at all, so maybe that's not a fair comparison either...

But I can certainly understand the dilemma that some of you guys might be in--trying to build a name in the business, but doing it on Vegas. The SONAR guys have the same issue, judging from the threads I have seen on that forum. However my career in medicine gives me the luxury of not having to worry about those kinds of things--I am never going to have to rely on this stuff for a living. I certainly can feel for the folks trying to break into 'the biz' though.

Having said that, I will add that I signed up for an Audio Engineering course at the local technical college earlier this fall. I ended up not doing it due to knee-related surgical issues, but I spoke with the instructor several times and actually sat in on two lectures before deciding I couldn't commit to the entire semester. But he's a stand-up guy and while we were talking about what the school uses for equipment (all Mac) and software (Pro Tools and FCP), he basically told me that these are "widely regarded" as the industry standard tools, so that's what the school uses. So there you go. I guess a person could say that the problem starts in the tech schools and universities teaching media. If students are taught that Pro Tools and FCP are the tools you have to use to make it, then that's what they'll learn, and simply look down their noses at anyone thinking any differently. And if a large percentage of those entering the media industry come out of these programs, how long is it going to take to change? Will it ever change?

TB

When I bought my laptop last June, I bought it just before Dell's deadline for the Windows XP option. After that you could only buy a system with Vista. Guess what?

From the Dell website:

YOU SPOKE - WE LISTENED

Obviously a LOT of people don't like Vista. As Dell said YOU SPOKE - WE LISTENED

John