OT: Let's talk about Reason, Rewire, Acid and all that stuff

NickHope wrote on 12/2/2004, 3:47 AM
Hi all,

I hope this can be a thread where we can discuss the production of music on computer from the perspective of a video person, not a highly experienced audio nerd who's going to blind us with double dutch about flangers and phasers (although if you want to, then feel free).

I had a few issues on my mind so I thought I'd lump them together. I'm very interested to compare notes and learn from how others are doing this. This is close to my heart because I'm at a point now where I need a whole load of music for a DVD and I'm flirting with doing some or all of it myself. But my learning curve represents the north face of the Eiger at the moment.

So first of all, this is what I'm doing...

Software:
Vegas 5.0b of course. Been using Reason 2.5 to make some music but I've a LOT to learn to get more out of it. Most of what I've done so far sounds too poppy and lacks subtlety. Got Soundforge but can't do much with it yet except cutting pasting and format conversion.

Hardware:
Terratec DMX 6fire 24/96 soundcard. Sounds good but I regret no balanced input for recording voiceover. Also cannot run Vegas and Reason at the same time through it as it has no full duplex drivers. Also got Edirol PCR50 MIDI keyboard controller (which has NOT been reliable - probably should have got the M-Audio). Only got a cheapo hi-fi and headphones at the moment for monitoring what I've done.

Now here are four questions I am asking myself...

1. If they put Rewire in Vegas 6 should that mean I could run Reason and Vegas at the same time and arrange my music in Reason/Vegas while watching the corresponding video in Vegas? Can't do this now and it's a pain. By the way Reason doesn't do audio (only MIDI) so I have to export and mix in Vegas.

2. Will Rewire actually be in Vegas 6. I've read some say that it's inevitable so Vegas can compete in the audio field. For that matter when will Vegas 6 be out anyway?

3. As a Vegas user should I be using Acid instead of or as well as Reason? What am I missing out on without Acid? Is it easier to get the job done with Acid than Reason or should the 2 just be viewed as different tools with different functions? Can Acid record audio or is Vegas needed for that? Does Acid have synths and can it play VST instruments or is everything based on existing samples/loops? It sure would be nice to make my music with a piece of software that shares the friendliness of Vegas' Sony GUI.

4. I need some monitoring speakers with digital input. Been looking at Edirol MA-20D. Opinions? Should I get something bigger and better than that for my home studio?

That'll do for starters. If anyone can shed light on these questions or just share their experiences in this field, please feel free. Grazie, I suspect you'll be first. I think you've been going through a similar steep learning curve to me.

Comments

JohnnyRoy wrote on 12/2/2004, 4:41 AM
Here are my answers as a Vegas 5 and ACID user.

> 1. If they put Rewire in Vegas 6 should that mean I could run Reason and Vegas at the same time and arrange my music in Reason/Vegas while watching the corresponding video in Vegas? Can't do this now and it's a pain.

Yes, you can do this today without ReWire. If all you want to do is chase music to video, you can use MIDI Clock Sync in Reason and Generate MIDI Clock from Vegas and when you press Play in Vegas, Reason will play along with it. When you’re happy with your music in Reason, just export as a wave file and import into the Vegas timeline. You need to install a MIDI software router like the Sonic Foundry MIDI Router or MIDI Yoke. I realize it isn’t obvious how to do this. I would be glad to help you set this up if you want to try it. Email me johnnyroy at rcn dot com.

> 2. Will Rewire actually be in Vegas 6. I've read some say that it's inevitable so Vegas can compete in the audio field

Obviously no one can answer this as Sony doesn’t pre-release feature lists or release dates. What is inevitable for some might not even be on Sony’s radar.

> 3. As a Vegas user should I be using Acid instead of or as well as Reason?

The big advantage to using ACID is that you don’t need to be a musician to compose music. ACID loops are real musicians (like Mick Fleetwood , Rudy Sarzo, etc.) playing for you. You just need to select the ones you like, drop them on the timeline and paint the music. I always thought Reason was more MIDI based and requires you to play the music yourself. I’m not the best person to comment because I don’t use Reason (I use ACID)

I know Jeffrey Fisher uses ACID and Reason together. You might want to post over on the DMN Sony ACID Forum to see what he has to say.

> What am I missing out on without Acid?

Nothing. You can load your Video right into ACID and score the music while watching the video. Drop markers. Fit music to markers. It’s a great tool for scoring to video.

> Is it easier to get the job done with Acid than Reason or should the 2 just be viewed as different tools with different functions?

I think its fair to say they are different tools with different functions. You can ReWire them together and play Reason instruments from ACID so they are very complimentary.

> Can Acid record audio or is Vegas needed for that?

Yes, ACID can record audio one track at a time.

> Does Acid have synths and can it play VST instruments or is everything based on existing samples/loops?

Yes ACID can play VSTi Instrument and ACID Pro 5.0 ships with Native Instruments Xpress Keyboards which gives you a Hammond B3, Sequential Circuits Prophet 5, and a Yamaha DX7. That’s a pretty good set of synths to start with.

> It sure would be nice to make my music with a piece of software that shares the friendliness of Vegas' Sony GUI.

Then ACID is the tool for you. ;-)

~jr
cosmo wrote on 12/2/2004, 7:55 AM
Sounds to me like you'd be more productive with with ACID than Reason. I use Reason for EVERYTHING sequenced that I do, which is a lot. I rarely use ACID anymore. The reason I use ACID less now since getting Reason is that I'm a musician and songwriter before I'm anything else. I like the freedom I get to write my own tunes to my own rythms with any instrument under the sun. On the other hand - ACID allows non-musicians to quickly and easily "paint" tracks and mix them all together - magically staying in time and beautiful with everything. With good libraries ACID can be an amazing tool. Especially if you aren't a musician or songwriter.

As for Rewire/syncing I've found the MIDI chase locking up Vegas to Reason to be somewhat cumbersome. I much prefer Rewire. However - if you're going to get into Rewire you should know there are HOST and SLAVE Rewire applications. Maybe I'm wrong here but I think I remember trying ACID with Rewire(probably checking to see how Vegas would work with Rewire) and ACID ran as Slave Rewire and not host. So therefore - to run ACID and Reason Rewired together you'd need a third app to HOST the Rewire functionality. It was screwey...not like Cubase hosting Reason(which is my normal composing setup).

Good luck!
NickHope wrote on 12/4/2004, 5:52 AM
Thanks very much for the informative replies guys.

Sounds like having both might be useful. I fancy myself as a bit of a muso so although Acid might get functional music finished quicker, Reason will allow me to indulge my delusions of being an "artiste".

Now then... Wouldn't rewire just be a case of Acid being the host and Reason being the slave? I don't see why I'd need a 3rd application. I'll check out the Acid forum about this too.

Does anyone have an opinion on the Edirol MA-20D speakers or alternatives?

Does anyone else fancy sharing their music-making setup?
NickHope wrote on 12/4/2004, 6:05 AM
Just found this article which explains how to rewire Acid and Reason:

http://www.propellerheads.se/support/reason/rewire/index.cfm?fuseaction=get_article&article=acid_40d
JohnnyRoy wrote on 12/4/2004, 8:08 AM
> I don't see why I'd need a 3rd application.

I didn’t understand that comment either. There is no need for a 3rd application. ACID Pro 5.0 can be used as either a host or a slave. A 3rd application is not required.

> Just found this article which explains how to rewire Acid and Reason:

It should be noted that this article is for ACID 4.0 which was when ACID could only be used as a ReWire host (i.e., master). ACID Pro 5.0 can now be used as a ReWrire Device (i.e., slave) in other applications so you have more possibilities. Since ACID is not a multi-track DAW, it is much more useful for some in slave mode as a ReWire device.

> Does anyone else fancy sharing their music-making setup?

You don’t want what I’ve got, but I can tell you what I’m considering purchasing after hearing Spot use this on the VASST Training tour. M-Audio Firewire 410 interface connected to the M-Audio LX4 2.1 System and LX4 5.1 Expander System. I already have an M-Audio Radium 49 MIDI Keyboard Controller.

~jr