Where was the video shot? If the video was shot in a public area, then it doesn't matter if they sign a release or not. That's the law!

[Addendum] See: http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

J--

Here's an idea. Get the permission slips signed on your own (and don't forget the parents and teachers who went along on the trip too), then sell the 75 videos for $20 each to the parents and bypass the school altogether. You will have covered your cost and made a decent profit. It sounds to me like you've earned it! Good luck.

The video was shot at a private campground that the school contracted with.

I'm just trying to play by the rules. But it does seem as if the rules are being selectively enforced.

Yeah, I know it didn't have anything to do with fair use - but that's the only thing the district lawyer understands, so I guess that's why he sent me that section of the law. The district sent out a bunch of stuff to the teachers saying that for multimedia presentations, they can use 30 secs or no more than 10% of a copyrighted work, blah, blah. I skipped right past the lawyer guy and went to the superintendent because it was clear the lawyer really didn't know what he was talking about.

Sounds like the district's attorney is a duck, with that 10% statement, he's gonna land the school district in a lawsuit anyway. Tell him to show you anywhere in the Fair Use code does it mention any percentages at all. 1% can nail you, if it's the 'signature' of the piece.
Sucks when you're in the right and the idiots are in charge.
Twitak has a good point....go it alone maybe?

This is getting interesting. Maybe you can turn it into a reality show. :)

I think the whole thing is getting silly - you keep saying they are good people but yet they seem to be 'scaring' you with a lawsuit if you try to sell/distribute the thing. Do you have access to a lawyer? If so you should sit down and see if they can help you out. On the one hand it is true about the release forms, but on the other - as you said - schools do this sort of thing all the time. I have mentioned it before in the copyright threads - School photos now have copyright notices on them and they even send home a notice saying not to copy the photos, just order prints. However the thing is that most also say something to the effect of "Order prints by [DATE] because we do not retain negatives for more than one year" thusly if you want a copy beyond one year you are forced to break the law. So we have the other side of this which is use of those same photos for something other than your (family) use. i.e - yearbooks, class projects and so on. If they say "lawsuit" to you I feel like you should do the same in reguards to your child(ren). Fight fire with fire if you have to...next time an image of your child pops up in something 'for sale' have your lawyer send off a letter.

I can understand some things - such as if a stranger just popped up one day with a video camrea, or a still camera, and started taking photos of the kids. Creepy to be sure. But this isn't the case. On the music side of things you know you are in the right - start asking how they handle the music department. Do they pay royalites when they do shows/concerts/pep ralies? Do they actually buy all the copies of the sheet music they use or do they just photocopy it? And so on. On the release form side - if you are doing this on your own and it was not done on school property why bother to go through the school at this point? Just go direct to all the parents with the release form. Tell them you have 75 copies of the DVD, you are olnly selling to the parents of the kids at "cost" and that when they are gone they are gone.

As I type this I got to thinking - you know I did not sign any release form for every parent my daughters image given to each one. Nor did I go to each parent and have them sign off so I could get a copy of their childs photo. Yet everyone who wanted got a class photo. Matter of fact anyone who wanted one could just buy one from the photographer. I could have purchase 100 of them if I wanted to and given them out all over the place.

On the PTSO topic - last year, and I had mentioned this in another thread, the PTSO was doing a 'family movie night. They would go to the local video store, rent a new release and show it in the high school auditorium on the big screen. They charged admission. Now does this sort of thing go on in your childs school? I mentioned this as a potential legal issue to a school board member and now the PTSO does free 'family movie nights'. But it is still a thin line - and to the letter of the law illegal.

>They would go to the local video store, rent a new release and show it in the high school auditoriam on the big screen.

At least they were inside - my kid's school is planning on doing this outside projecting the image on a white wall!!!

I'm not going to be the one to clue 'em in though. They've been doing it for a couple of years and the kids look forward to it. Someone else can have the privilege of taking it away.

This is the reference the attorney sent:

http://www.musiclibraryassoc.org/Copyright/guidemed.htm

Turns out that it's an interpretation of Fair Use. He's referring to section 4.2.3 regarding the percentages. Kinda interesting reading. Spot, maybe you can comment on it.

As far as going it alone... so far I am out $500. If I go it alone, I don't know if the school district would try to take any action against me or not - don't really care, because I believe I would prevail anyway. However, I would not want to have to pay to defend myself. Also, even if I stated that I did it all myself, without any of the teachers' involvement, they could still end up getting fired - and they're really good teachers. This isn't worth anybody's job. Plus, my kids have four more years left at this school, so I wouldn't want there to be any kind of hassle for them.

The distict is going to amend the handbook to specifically mention the use of students in photo, video, and multi-media productions as part of the beginning-of-the-year parent sign-off. So that's a good thing - going forward. I'm just hoping that at this point, a little common sense will prevail, and the district will say: "You know what? He's got buy-in from xx% of the parents so far, it's reasonable to go ahead and sell these things."

If it goes, great - everybody wins. If not, I'll write it off, chalk it up to learning thru the School of Hard Knocks. It'd be a shame, tho'...

This isn't going to help in your present situation, but it's something to think about for the future.

Yours is an issue that has been the topic of numerous WEVA articles and panels, the subject of discussions among local event videographer's business associations and seems to bedevil event videographers nationwide. You've gotten yourself into the position of having to chase down permission slips, copyright releases, etc., and having to deal with school administrators and their minions, none of whom care a thing about your problem, and none of whom want to be held accountable for anything. And what you really want to do is practice your profession as a videographer.

The solution to all this is don't get into this position. Someone -- the PTA, PTSO, "Mothers for a better pictorial representation of our School", whoever -- wants a video made of school activities. They are your client. It is with them that you negotiate a contract, and it is they, not you, who is then responsible for securing all the permissions and rights.

The obligations of the client should be spelled out in your contract. If they meet these obligations, you shoot the event(s). If they don't, there's no shoot. If you do the shoot it is the client (PTA/PTSO etc.,) that pays you. You're not left in the position of having to make "x" number of tape and DVD sales to pay for your work.

During the course of a year our company does 10-15 theatrical and musical performance shoots. Our contract stipulates that the client is responsible for obtaining all the permissions necessary for the shoot, including copyright permission, permission from the performance and craft unions involved, etc. There is a section of the contract, carefully drawn up by our attorney, in which the client attests to having obtained each of these permissions, and agrees to pay any legal and punative fees we might incure owing to the client's failure to perform.

We bill the client for the shoot, the editing and "x" number of copies of the finished project on VHS tape. We're paid for the shoot at the conclusion of the shoot, the balance on delivery of the tapes. We have no idea how much the client sells the tapes for, and don't care. We've gotten what to us is a fair price for each copy.

If the client wants additional copies of the tape, or DVDs, these are billed at our going rate.

The net effect of working like this is that you're entirely out of the permission/copyright/"gee, we've got a problem" loop. Shooting a school event becomes no different than shooting a corportate event. You're dealing with a single client whose responsibility it is to get everything ready for the shoot and to pay you for your services. If the client runs into problems the shoot gets scrubbed and you walk away from it without any loss.

Good luck with your current problem. Hope you can work something out that won't leave you holding 75 used tapes.

Jack

I'm familiar with the article he cited, it's used a lot. Problem is, read the bottom where it says "These groups support these guidelines." Those guidelines have been tested and found to fail in more than one instance. The LDS Church recently got slapped over this 3 min or 10% thing too.
Doesn't help your situation...but if you took the drum riff of "50 Ways to Leave Your Lover" and used it, even though it's less than 10%, you'd be busted, because you used the identifying hook of the song. Educational or not...
Amazing how many myths there are out there about this stuff.
In your case, sad that they can't figure out the right answers.
I agree with Filmy,...fight fire w/fire. I sure as hell would.

This thread makes me extremely glad NOT to be a professional. It also clearly illustrates the principle, "Don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness". Cause you know what---no District Attorney in existence is going to want to answer the question, "Why are you pursuing this guy who sold 75 copies of a DVD to kids and their parents who were really grateful to have it, when you could've been prosecuting some of the thugs, murderers, and rapists in your community?"

Personally I think you should stop interacting with the various authorities for a few weeks, let it chill, and then contact only the interested parents explaining what happened. You could potentially offer the DVDs to the intended recipients for a non-mandatory donation--hopefully, the folks would pony up voluntarily if they clearly realize what a stupid situation this has turned into.

Talk sure is cheap, huh?

Best regards,

Lee