OT: Microphone help please

Tim L wrote on 4/29/2008, 8:10 PM
I am trying to connect a microphone directly to my PC for recording some voice-overs for a home video. I'm not expecting pro quality --especially since the voice itself is definitely amateur quality -- but the volume is terribly low -- barely a whisper.

I have a Rode VideoMic, with no pads or attenuator (mine is the older model), plugged into my PC mic input port. When I speak/record in a normal voice just a few inches from the mic, I might hit -20db on the Vegas audio meter (in the track header). The Rode VM is a very hot mic, and is powered by a 9v battery. I can get much louder audio with it plugged into my camcorder and recording from 5 or even 10 ft away.

My PC is an older model Gateway P4 HT with RealTek ALC880 onboard audio. I have every slider I can find cranked up. Input is not muted. I just downloaded the latest Realtek drivers tonight (from Gateway), I've never been able to get this working.

So here's the fundamental question: should I be able to plug a camcorder-type mic into the PC and record directly? Or are camcorder mics different (lower output) from your typical PC plug-in mic? I don't want to spend money on a separate/better soundcard if the end result will be the same using my Rode mic, but will gladly spend it if this is something that should work.

Can you guys record direct to PC from camcorder typ mics? Or am I trying to do something foolish?

Thanks,
Tim L

Comments

johnmeyer wrote on 4/29/2008, 8:24 PM
1. Double-click on the speaker icon in the system tray (next to the clock).

2. Select Options -> Properties.

3. Select Adjust volume for: Recording and click on OK.

4. Click on the Options menu item and make sure that Advanced is checked.

5. You should now have a button under Microphone labeled "Advanced." Click on that. You should see something like "Microphone +20dB Boost." If that is not selected, click on that. Also, before you close the recording control, make sure the recording volume for the microphone is set reasonably high.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 4/29/2008, 8:27 PM
A Rode VideoMic should work just fine. Try this:

1) Go to the Volume Applet (Start | All Programs | Accessories | Entertainment | Volume Control)
2) Select Options | Properties
3) Press the Recording radio button
4) Make sure Microphone is checked
5) Press OK
6) Under the Microphone fader press the Advanced button
7) Make sure Microphone Boost is checked

This should give you a significant boost in mic output when using your PC audio chip. While you are in the Volume Control make sure the Microphone volume is adjusted accordingly.

PS: John Meyer beat me by 3 minutes! damn!!! it was all that formatting I did. Slows me down every time. ;-)

~jr
farss wrote on 4/29/2008, 8:37 PM
Another suggestion from another direction:

Buy a Rode Podcaster mic. This thingy has the preamps and A/D converter build in and plugs into a USB port bypassing the PCs audio section entirely. It'll work with any PC that has a USB port. If the Rode is a bit too expensive Samson make a cheap knockoff, no doubt there's others as well.

Bob.
johnmeyer wrote on 4/29/2008, 9:02 PM
I liked your version better, JR.
PeterWright wrote on 4/30/2008, 2:02 AM
Unless you have a booth or other soundproofing device, the big problem with recording to PC, especially desktop, is that you tend to get the sound of the hard drives and fans whirring in your audio. Laptops are better, but you get much cleaner audio if you switch off the PC, record onto your camera, then captiure the audio afterwards.
UlfLaursen wrote on 4/30/2008, 4:10 AM
Buy a Rode Podcaster mic

I have one of theese, and I like it - imo it is not bad at all.

/Ulf
Tim L wrote on 4/30/2008, 5:22 AM
Guys, thanks very much for all the replies -- especially the nicely formatted ones. It's good to know that this should work.

I think I had all of those items set, and even the advanced "mic boost" turned on, but the mic still seemed so quiet that I figured something must be wrong. I don't think I could get the meter to hit peak even if I yelled into the thing from a couple inches away (but I guess I really didn't try yelling, since I wasn't planning to record any yelling).

Anyway, the Rode VideoMic is normally a very hot/high-output mic. With consumer camcorders, you normally need to pad it with a small headphone volume control/pot just to bring the output down to a friendlier level. I think current models (mine's an older one) have built-in pads for -10dB and -20dB. (BTW, I did not have the pot/pad connected last night -- just mic direct to the PC mic input.)

I will double-check all these settings when I get home tonight. Then maybe I'll try on a couple other computers at home to see if I can find success there. That would help me see if its just something wonky on my computer.

(BTW, I do understand I might pick up some CPU fan noise, etc., recording this way, but this is just for home videos so its not so critical. And its in a carpeted bedroom, so the room isn't terribly "live".)
johnmeyer wrote on 4/30/2008, 8:37 AM
Remember to check the recording level, as JR stated. Windows does not normally set mic levels, as you are accustomed to with the AGC on most camcorder mics. You must set this yourself.
JohnnyRoy wrote on 4/30/2008, 10:49 AM
Also gotta ask: Are you sure the microphone is plugged into the MIC IN and not the LINE IN? This sounds like a typical Microphone in the Line In jack problem. (obviously the mic output, however hot, is no where near hot enough to be up to line-in levels)

~jr
richard-courtney wrote on 4/30/2008, 11:26 AM
JonnnyRoy - I liked your response better too.

Tim L -
No such thing as "just a home video". Audio is SO important. We play
videos at our church and while the video content looks good it can be
totally spoiled by poor audio. When we amplify the audio you really hear
the background. A clean background is high priority in my mind.

Not using a mic built into the case of the camcorder really helps.
We used the camcorder's firewire to capture sound onto the PC when I
first started a few years ago, which I think is much better than any audio
card (or circuit) on the PC itself.

The next level is either a http://beachtek.com/dxa2s.htmlBeachtek XLR adapter[/link] or a USB device.

A further jump might be a http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/NRV10-main.htmlM-Audio Mixer[/link]
which gives you some ability to mix voice and music.

Good XLR cabled mics separated from your computer is very important.

I always try to tell you what to save up for and make a jump so you don't
waste money having to rebuy equipment. I wish I had someone to give
me that advice over the years.
Coursedesign wrote on 4/30/2008, 1:18 PM
Several manufacturers sell XLR to USB adapters for podcasting, etc.

Inexpensive way to get better quality sound without adding sound cards, and works for both desktops and laptops.

Tim L wrote on 4/30/2008, 7:58 PM
Guys, thanks again for all the advice.

I spent some time again tonight trying to get it to work better. In the end, at least for now, I'm going back to recording the voiceovers on the camcorder. I need to get some stuff done, so I don't have time to continue struggling with it. I bought a used FX7 a while back, so I do have manual control on audio now, and audio meter displays.

I just thought it would be nice to record right into Vegas, right on the timeline, and avoid the extra effort of capturing files from the camcorder to the PC.

Re: Line In vs Mic In: My RealTek on-board audio has configurable input jacks. Any jack, front or rear, can be a mic input, line input, or headphone output. Just to be safe, I stuck generally with the Pink jack on the front for mic in, but I did try the other jacks, front and back, as well. Each time you plug something into a jack, a pop-up window asks you to specify whether you just plugged in a mic, a line-in device, or headphones/speakers. I definitely had it configured for mic in, but even tried "line in" one just in case the software had the two swapped. I also had the "Mic Boost" enabled. (I should have taken a screen shot, but I had already unplugged everything and put it away before I thought of that.)

I tried plugging the Rode VM into a different computer here at home, with a different/newer version of the Realtek audio stuff, and I got it working within a minute or two -- at least to get a reasonable volume recorded. Still seemed a little weak to me though.

Eventually I did get it to work better on "my" PC, but still much quieter than I expected. I was noticing for a while that even toggling the "mute" input on and off, and running the volume slider up and down (for the "FPink" jack) seemed to have no affect on my levels (in the vegas track header) -- then suddenly they did make a difference. Not sure why it suddenly started working better.

But still, the sound quality seemed poor. The audio was very bassy sounding, with no crispness or high end. Maybe that was from having to be so close to the mic when talking, or maybe there are other settings I can mess with, but for now I just need to move on, so I'll record on the camcorder. Maybe the integrated, onboard audio stuff (3 year old computer) just isn't good enough.

The XLR-to-USB thing looked pretty cool though -- especially for the price. I might come back to this issue someday and look into something like that, especially if I can find a similar 1/8" input version. But for hobby use, I want to avoid spending much money on this -- especially after buying that camcorder.

Thanks again,
Tim L