OT: Music Videos - Closeup...yet Full Figure???

Nathan_Shane wrote on 6/3/2007, 11:03 PM
Okay, I'm sitting here watching the Hi-Def version of Joe Satriani Live and it seems when they do a closeup of him playing, they are able to capture his entire guitar and all the way up to the top of his head (basically from the waist up to a little above his head).

Visually, the concert footage makes the camera appear very close to the subject...yet if I try to frame myself playing guitar in this same way with the HV20, I have to physically place the camera far away from me with the zoom set to wide to fit me in the frame in the same way...yet I look farther away.

How are they able to capture Joe so closeup and make it look like the camera is right in front of him?

Comments

Grazie wrote on 6/3/2007, 11:41 PM
Guessing here, maybe a Fisheye adaptor AND being used close-up. So what you would get is MORE in frame from a point that WOULD be close-by too! It was all the rage in the '60s - not that I know of course!! - to produce various record/vinyl covers - was it the Stones? Anyways, check out the samples on Century Optics sites "Fisheye" adaptors. Not cheap!!

Grazie
farss wrote on 6/3/2007, 11:50 PM
Of course fish eye lenses mostly look like fisheyes with the edge of the frame very distorted. For something just under the national debt you can get some amazing optics that are incredibly wide with no distortion.

Bob.
Serena wrote on 6/4/2007, 12:26 AM
Maybe just short focal length rather than extremely short (ie. fisheye). You should be able to tell by the perspective of the shot.
FuTz wrote on 6/4/2007, 6:07 AM
Can you post a frame ?
Could also be that they have a high stage so they can film from a little underneat at zoom in with a wide angle lens so the image is compressed (the spots seem to be near the back of his head while having the whole gtr in the frame) ...?
It really would help to be able to have a peek at the image so it's easy to figure out.
Nathan_Shane wrote on 6/4/2007, 6:13 AM
It's definitely not a fisheye lens, it doesn't look fisheye to me, the footage looks normal. If anything, it may be shot from a little below looking upwards, but not by much. I'm no expert on video techniques and different lenses, but perhaps they're using a wide angle lens or something similar. I'm still experimenting with this though, so it's a learning experience for me at this point.

I think FuTz may have the right answer to this, I'll see about grabbing a frame from the DVD to post.
farss wrote on 6/4/2007, 6:46 AM
In general a wide angle lens will expand the depth of the subject whereas a long lens will compress the depth i.e. the apparent distance between objects. A good eaxmple of this is in wildlife footage. The person near the lion can appear way closer than he is due to the long lens being used.

One way you can judge the focal length in the type of shot you're talking about is by looking at the relative size of objects in the foreground, in this case the guitar. If it looks larger than life relative to the guitarist then a wide lens is being used. I suspect this is the case based on your original comment that the shot made you feel like you were very close to the subject.
For the same reason WA lenses aren't very flattering, noses and bellies get enlarged!
Jay Gladwell wrote on 6/4/2007, 7:51 AM

Remember, at concerts, they have more room to work in than you or I do at home.

FuTz wrote on 6/4/2007, 5:21 PM
Exactly, Jay... ; )
Coursedesign wrote on 6/4/2007, 7:49 PM
Two ways to shoot this:

1) with a rectilinear extreme wideangle lens (one with no "fisheye type" geometric distortion, i.e. it doesn't bend straight lines)

2) with a fisheye lens and then apply a rectilinear transformation in post. I have seen a plug-in for this (for high level HD use), can't remember where for the moment.
Bob Greaves wrote on 6/5/2007, 4:22 PM
When Joe Satriani captures video of his concerts he uses several huge camera booms that can sweep just over the head of the crowd. It may in deed be a close up right in front of him.
farss wrote on 6/5/2007, 4:44 PM
If you watch a lot of concert footage you'll oftenly catch a camera op kneelling down in front of a performer, if they cut to that camera I think that's when you'll see the kind of shot Nathan is talking about. The big cameras can be fitted with a zoom lens that goes very wide, even the XL-H1 now has an optional wide zoom.

Bob.
Coursedesign wrote on 6/5/2007, 6:20 PM
That sounds like the 3x wide angle zoom that Canon has had forever, well since the XL1 days.

I used to rent it when I needed it, it's an incredibly sharp and snappy lens, equivalent to 24-72mm on a 35mm still still camera.
farss wrote on 6/5/2007, 6:34 PM
Nope, whole new HD lens, 24.5 to 147mm (35 equiv), $2,500 or near enough.
Coursedesign wrote on 6/5/2007, 7:01 PM
If it's as sharp as the old one, it's definitely got my respect!
Nathan_Shane wrote on 6/5/2007, 10:29 PM
I re-looked at the Satriani DVD using Windows Media Player so I could easily pause the footage and examine the scene. You can see the camera operators in most of the shots, and see the one in front of the stage pointing the camera upwards towards Joe. So obviously that "angle-up" approach helps to fit more of Joe into the frame.

I tried experimenting with this more at home and there is definitely a limited range of angle and camera distance that can be used that looks good or "visually right" as opposed to looking novice.

I uploaded some Satriani DVD captures to Flickr. I captured images that were from the camera in front and below the stage, and then there is one image that was from a straight on camera that had zoomed in.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7532559@N03/archives/date-posted/2007/06/05/Joe Satriani DVD Widescreen Captures[/link]
farss wrote on 6/6/2007, 12:17 AM
Just an uneducated guess but I'd say a pretty wide shot, look at Satch from below 3, see how the end of the mic boom gets much larger the closer it is to the camera. Also the DOF is pretty huge, definately not a long lens from any distance. And being 16:9 helps too.

Love your workroom.