OT: Need New Monitor

RBartlett wrote on 9/4/2008, 11:36 AM

How much were you thinking of paying?

You see, much as you can get a 22" or 24" monitor (mail order) for less than UK£200, there are many that are 6bit dithered still (16.2Million colours simulated from adding one or more adjacent pixels from a centre pixel where each lit pixel is restricted to a palette of 262000 colours). This 6bit stepping of LCD level is delivers a faster switching time but with only 64 shades you usually see contouring with video that on a CRT or higher grade LCD/plasma wouldn't show any.

It is difficult to tell what you'll get from the brief feature summary. Usually you need to read the carton or the spec sheet inside the box (or PDF).

This is where xvColor, gigacolor and true 24bit (8bits per channel) monitors are worth hunting out IMHO. Better to have this at the expense of not perhaps having quite so many inputs.

As Vegas does run well on a fairly low spec PC. Do also check that your graphics card supports 60,75 and perhaps 100Hz at the widescreen aspect ratio and resolution the panel you settle on supports. Or at least work out what you'll do about it if it doesn't.

S-PVA panels are great if money is no object. Yet still, do expect some difficulties with blacks and some time for the backlight to warm up. Cheap panels also tend to have problems with even backlighting. Weigh up how much you'll spend with the fact that even those who spend thousands on their LCD panel are finding that they have some shadow burning if they don't engage their screensavers.

I've been party to the purchase of a few 22" units for work recently. The Acer units are passable. I prefer what I've seen from HP, Dell, LG, Samsung, Viewsonic and eMachines in the stores though. I'm also drawn to HDMI, Y'PbPr inputs and pivotable functions.

Sorry I can't guide you to a model but I'll be interested in the later posts as to whether folks know whether their panels are dithered or not as they make their suggestions?

Tattoo wrote on 9/4/2008, 12:02 PM

I don't think pixel response time is a real issue for LCDs these days. The only question is how much of a video "purist" are you, as the color accuracy isn't as good as CRTs. If you're not a hard-core editor then your options are wide open. And even if you are, you may be better off at your price point to get a normal LCD & just hook up a small television as a secondary screen to preview. That way you get the EXACT preview of what the colors, screen size, etc. will look like on a PAL TV.

I don't have a TV preview set up myself, so I can't help you there. If interested, search this forum on such words as "TV preview monitor" for more. Also can't help you much on LCD tips, but I'd definitely recommend a widescreen to move your preview window & docking tabs off to the side so you can work with your timeline easier. I've got a 24" wide that works nice.

Brian

GlennChan wrote on 9/4/2008, 12:18 PM

Are you doing SD or HD work?

For SD, your best bet hands down is to get a CRT. LCDs suck at SD due to scaling artifacts due to the non-square pixels. And they have to de-interlace the signal (which doesn't really work), and they don't do black, and the colors might be funky especially in cheaper panels. Some information on scaling artifacts:
http://broadcast-monitors.glennchan.info/scaling-artifacts/scaling-artifacts.htm
The CRT doesn't get scaling artifacts because it doesn't have to scale the picture. A LCD, for SD work, HAS to rescale the image to deal with the non-square pixels... this will introduce artifacts into the image.

A broadcast CRT is about $600+. You could get a consumer CRT... though they tend to have picture quality cheats, aren't designed to be color accurate, and sacrifice picture quality to make the display brighter.

Maverick wrote on 9/4/2008, 12:57 PM

Thanks for the interesting comments.

I'm not a video purist - it's a hobby although I have edited for a local health service.

Currently everything I do is SD but, having got V8Pro and DVDA 5 I can't see it being too long before I make the move to consumer HD so, perhaps best to be a little future-proof.

The fact that some are not true 24 bit colour has come as a surprise to me. If a manufacturer specs state: 'Display colour 16.7 million' can I assume this means true 24bit?

I have just been looking at the Iiyama E2607WSV-1 at less than £240 from Dabs. Does anyone have any further comments on this? Or perhaps the LG 24" L246WH?

Cheers

RBartlett wrote on 9/4/2008, 3:12 PM

Where the manufacturer rather than the outlet says that it is 16.7Million colours is definitely a very good indication of the panel being 24bit in the output stages. If they state nothing, then historically I've assumed a dither technology panel.
(GG response time is grey to grey)

It appears that there is a E2607WS-1 which appear (from the vendor detail) to be of higher spec input wise but with little on the price:
http://www.afterhours.co.uk/iiyama-prolite-e2607ws1-26-widescreen-tft-lcd-3ms-hdmi-black-p-4408.html
update:http://www.iiyama.com/ms_GL/Product/category/2/product/152#showtab2 confirms specs. This is a TN panel. So not likely as sumptuous as S-IPS but this fact is reflected in the price.

ProLite E2607WSV-1
The latest entry into iiyama’s ‘value’ range of products is the E2607WSV, a High Definition, 2msec 26” LCD
solution perfect for today’s demanding applications. Superb colour quality is achieved by a 1000:1 contrast ratio
and the option to enhance colour further by enabling Advanced Contrast Ratio. The ‘OptiColour’ features allows
quick and simple adjustment of the colour settings to suit the application or mood. 5 Watt speakers offer Stereo
Audio performance well above the average multimedia display available today.
Panel TN
Diagonal 26"
Display area h x w 343.8 x 550.1 mm
Response time 5 ms; 2 ms GG
Contrast 4000 : 1 ACR
Brightness 300 cd/m² typical
Viewing zone horizontal/vertical: 170°/150°; right/left: 85°/85°; up/down: 80/70°
Display colour 16.7 million
Pixel pitch h x v 0.2865 x 0.2865 mm
Native resolution 1920 x 1200 (2.3 megapixel)
Horizontal sync 31 - 80 KHz
Vertical sync 56 - 75 Hz
Analog input connector D-Sub
Synchronization Separate Sync
Plug & Play VESA DDC 1/2B™
Speakers 2 x 5 W (Stereo)
Included accessories Power Cable, D-Sub Cable, Audio cable, user manual, stand
Apple - Mac All iiyama monitors are compatible with Apple-Macintosh computers.
Controls Via OSD in 9 languages (EN, FR, DE, ES, IT, FIN, Chinese (simplified and traditional) and 5 front controls
(Menu, Scroll down/Brightness/Contrast/ACR/ECO, Scroll up/OptiColour Mode, Select, Power)
User controls auto adjust, contrast, brightness, ACR, ECO, audio adjust, colour adjsut, information, manual image adjust
(horizontal size, H/V position, fine tune, sharpness, video mode adjust, OptiColour mode), setup menu
(language select, OSD position, OSD time out), memory recall
Driver Windows 95 / 98 / 2000 / ME / XP / Vista
Safety CE, TUV/Baurt, VCCI-B
Power supply AC 100 - 240 V, 50 / 60 Hz
Power Supply Unit internal
Power usage 52 W typical; max. 2 W in Power management mode
Power management VESA DPMS, ENERGY STAR®
Anti-theft-device Kensington-lock™ prepared
VESA mounting 200 mm
Tilt angle 20° up
Dimensions w x h x d 597.5 x 460.5 x 238 mm
Weight 8.3 kg
Aspect ratio 16 : 10

L246WH appears to be end-of-sales at Dabs... It is described by reviewers and forums as also being a TN panel.
http://www.ccidistribution.co.uk/datasheets/2008/jan/30706.pdf

Nice set of inputs though on the LG. I'd be swayed by the 26" Iiyama and the fact that it can sync to 75Hz, which is better for PAL than 60Hz. This is less significant while Vegas doesn't tend to update beyond a non-interlaced/blended 25Hz/30Hz on the desktop. (ie part of the reason why previewing via a BMD/Kona or DV camcorder has it's uses but adding that might suit the LG better as it has PiP for the composite input which to an extent might not involve scaling for you while you work in SD?).

http://sg.lge.com/prodmodeldetail.do?actType=compare&modelCategoryId=050105&categoryId=050105&parentId=0501&page=1&modelCodeDisplay=L246WH#
*** Correction, some dealers (like CCI reference above) give mention to the composite functions. This isn't a port-type but a pin-spec, it refers to composite-sync (HSYNC+VSYNC) most likely referring primarily to the DB15 VGA port. The non-HDMI TV standard inputs (analogue ones) are component (presumably Y'PbPr as no mention of SCART or japanese-D4 RGB) and I've read that while this supports standard def (e.g. Sony PS2) - the picture is quoted as not being very clear (perhaps it is better in PiP mode?). The Australian dealers I've googled onto say this component input is video-only. That may be because there is no separate audio input. I'd hope it was able to accept HD res. via component too.

Personally, I'm still chugging along with my 19" Iiyama Pro 450 by the way (had it from new). A colleague picked up low hours Pro 452 for £15. He was offered 5 of them xmas 2007. Nobody wants them. It is bright too but you can only expect so many years from a CRT what with it being a thermionic device etc.

FYI: TN is an OK panel technology. PVA/MVA is regularly quoted as having better colour reproduction and a slight better viewing angle (maybe just better in one axis?). IPS/S-IPS is usually the top end. Much that everyone then explains that OLED/LED displays will be brigher, cooler. But certainly they seem likely to be smaller at first, expensive and who knows if they'll have the same longevity as the earlier panels. IMHO, another reason to go for LCD for it's convenient size, ease of availability (and warranty arrangements).

If you want an SD reference monitor, well - there are plenty of folks upgrading quite decent SD monitors for HD LCDs. (usually expensive ones with "better than NTSC gamut" or "high gamut" whatever these really equate to).

It is nice to be a purist but £280 for a big 24"/27" 1920x1200 16:10 panel with equal to CRT inputs or better seems like a good entry point for a realist! :)

JJKizak wrote on 9/4/2008, 3:15 PM

If your not too fussy you can get the Sony 32XBR6 which is 1080P LCD HDTV with gamma, white balance, red, blue, green adjust in addition to all of the other adjustments and HDMI inputs, Component,inputs, etc. Also deep black on/off. But you really need two of them. I don't do anything for broadcast so the black thing is a non issue. There are some shots where the black comes into play such as a night sky with stars, which is a major difference.
JJK

Maverick wrote on 9/4/2008, 3:51 PM

Thanks again for the pointers

The 26" Iiyama ProLite E2607WS-1 looks good but I have been slightly out off by the Computer Shopper reviews of two other Iiyama's: ProLite E2403WS-B1 & ProLite E2003WS-B1 where they say the colours are not so vivid and are slightly washed out. Is this a trend for Iiyama monitors. Has anyone else had good experiences with the 26" Iiyama ProLite E2607WS-1?

Cheers

RBartlett wrote on 9/4/2008, 4:12 PM

http://www.google.co.uk/products?q=S-IPS+monitor&btnG=Search+Products&hl=en&show=dd&scoring=p

I keep hearing about the HP 24" S-IPS being a good monitor with a fair range of inputs. Spec says 60Hz but as mentioned earlier, Vegas is unlikely to show tear lines when playing back any interlaced formats.
The link above (currently) has starting prices and smaller screens much cheaper than the HP 24" panel.

It is hard to gauge whether paying the extra will be right for you. One man's luxury is another man's necessity.

Maverick wrote on 9/5/2008, 12:27 AM

I've decided on the Iiyama E2607WS-1. Looks good, too.

Thanks for all the pointers. It should arrive tomorrow so I'll let you know how it is for me some time on Sunday :)

Cheers

Maverick wrote on 9/7/2008, 11:25 AM

Isntalled the Iilyama and...
... I am well impressed.

Looks great, cool and has a fantastic display.

No messing about... just plugged and went!

THanks again for all the advice :)

RBartlett wrote on 9/7/2008, 3:16 PM

Envy really gets me! Thanks Maverick.