Anyone else considering to purchase/use the Ursa when it is out?

What are your thoughts about the expensive CFast 2.0 Card?

I am considering to purchase the Atomos Shogun 4K recorder with the Ursa.
Considering that the Shogun records to the much cheaper SSD's (even 4K).

I am not going to pre-order the Ursa due to it being a new product.
I am curious to the feedback of others.

VMP

loved the clip lol

i was at one time about to rush out and buy a bm camera - then i started thinking about all the peripherals, etc.,and then thought i'd wait and see what the next nab had on offer...

of course, the ursa came along, relatively cheap, and what could be saved on the peripherals could go towards glass... they say they're developing a block to take eng lenses. interesting, but i think i first want to see the block, then hear from users...

as i always say, the problem with being on the cutting edge is you can bleed to death pretty quickly...

Lol funny indeed so many reference to the BM bugs mentioned in the clip.

Hmm indeed ushere.

When the time comes, I am going for the EF version.

Canon 24-105 mm being a good all arounder.
Of course EF primes can be also used.

VMP

I think the most complete camera is the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera. It has the least issues, is the lowest cost, and needs the least spent on it to shoot pictures with.

As there is almost no demand for 4K release at present, the only thing a 4K camera would do for me is to provide the flexibility of re-framing my shots or permit small zooms.

Having a global shutter would be great too, but the existing BMPC4K camera has too many shortcomings compared to the Pocket camera. I would not even consider putting a deposit on the Ursa until Blackmagic show some inclination to fix the outstanding issues with the BMPC4K which shares the same sensor. And I am not convinced that sensor is what I want on a camera.

Geoff

Geebax/ Geoff, thanks for your insight.

Why do you dislike the Ursa sensor? What are the outstanding issues?

As I mentioned above the other BM cameras including the pocket cinema camera lacks many things that I require for professional use.
Things like:
- XLR inputs
- Changeable batteries (long battery use)
- Overal audio control
- ND filter - build in
- Average Size - making it easier to handle without much rigging.

The price point that I have in mind is around 5000 Euros.

The candidates so far is Canon C100 and the Ursa and just below them the BM 4k camera as a option because it shoots 4K. (3840x2160)
But it does lack many of the things mentioned above.
I will be using the 4k or more resolution function for cropping and reframing images.
So even if 4k doesn't become a standard I will be using it for other purposes.

But I have just now found a big 'possible downside' to the Ursa. It weighs 7 Kg! That's just the camera itself.

I think that is going to be a big issue for me, I often work with Pro Sony Cams weighing around 3 Kg's.
Also most of my tools are made for a weight around 3Kgs max, like my slider Glide cam etc.

I will also be walking around with the camera. So it must be mobile and human friendly.

VMP

The sensor in the Ursa is the same one as the Blackmagic Production Camera 4K which is already available.

It has a maximum useable rating of ISO 800, less dynamic range than any of the previous cameras, is subject to the black hole problem on highlights and also very prone to fixed pattern noise in darker areas of the picture.

The FPN issue is causing a huge amount of angst over on the Blackmagic forum, as Blackmagic won't acknowledge its existence and the owners are furious about this. BMD are notoriously bad at communicating with their customers and some of the noisier ones are now talking about a class action against the company.

FPN can be addressed by doing an in-camera calibration, and this is how all other camera manufacturers deal with it. It is important to realise it happens on virtually every camera, but normally is dealt with by the camera.

It was actually seen on the Ursa by several people on the cameras they displayed at NAB last.

The global shutter is tempting, but at this point in time, I would not be thinking about buying any of the BMD 4K cameras until they demonstrate an ability to deal with the existing problems.

At the moment, there is a general consensus that the Panasonic GH4 is a better buy, as it is a more complete 4K camera, and in its minimum form, is cheaper than the BMPC4K. If you want XLR inputs and such, you have to buy the 'Yarghe' base unit, but overall the price is still pretty good. Granted it does not have a RAW capability, nor a global shutter, but the results shown so far are seemingly good.

Geoff

Thanks for the reply Geoff,

I didn't know the BMC sensor had so many issues.
I did hear about that sun black spot issue, I thought that it would have been fixed by now via a firmware update or something.

I guess C100 (even though not 4k) and GH4 ar now at top of my list.

I really like the image coming out of the Canon, BMC are also close to it.
I am not that familiair with Panasonic cams yet.

VMP

Panasonic GH4 vs Black Magic 4K Camera Video Test




VMP

Such tests are largely meaningless. The BMD seems to retain more in the highlights but that could be due to different exposure or how it was graded.

Bob.

Indeed Bob, I think the GH4's exposure is set higher as well.

VMP

I have seen some really spectacular footage from both cameras, but in the end it comes down to why you want 4K?

As there is almost zero demand for 4K release, the majority will be using it to give themselves room to move and re-frame in post, or even to downscale with greater quality to HD, and in that respect a RAW output is going to be best.

But neither the GH4 or the Blackmagic 4K camera offer RAW at present, so in my mind the only thing the Blackmagic camera has going for it is the global shutter and their unique colour science.

If you want to see what the GH4 can do, this was posted recently: http://vimeo.com/95392043

Geoff

Geoff,

I must say that I personally like the C100 more due to the skin tone that it produces which resembles more to the Arri Alexa (it's probably my own opinion).
If I would go for the C100, how long would I be future proof?
How many years would you think before 4k becomes a must?

I don't want to feel sorry that I did not buy a 4K cam next year or so.

C100 has the same sensor as the C500 which is 4K.
But only makes HD available at the end of the chain.
Stil the resolution is great. Things you may already know.


VMP

I have some money put aside to look at 4K in the future, but I will be waiting to see what surfaces in the next year or so. There is a great temptation to 'gear whore' and buy the latest and greatest, but the satisfaction is short-lived.

A month after you buy the latest camera, a new one comes along that makes your recent purchase obsolete. The trick is to make the one you just bought work hard and earn its keep.

As there is virtually zero opportunity to release anything in 4K, why worry about it at this time?

Another thing is that as soon as you start working in 4K, your current computer is going to be obsolete as well. More money to spend.

While I like what I see with the C100 picture wise, it is still only a HD camera, has rolling shutter, a limited range of frame rates and no RAW. So it actually is no better than my Blackmagic Pocket Camera in terms of features.

Geoff

Indeed good points.

I guess IBC this year will reveal more as well.

At this moment the C100 is on top of my list (it already was before I heard about Ursa).
I was planning to purchase it together with the Atomos Ninja Blade.

That will probably give it a bit more room to work with in post.

Raw vs Prores (BMCC) - http://vimeo.com/85360995

Btw have you seen this BMD pocket camera rigging video?
Rigging the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema
http://vimeo.com/92408707

VMP