OT: Nvidia 30XX compatibility

Jessariah67 wrote on 1/19/2021, 8:59 AM

So I've been like a lot of other people, waiting to pounce on the first available (reasonably priced) RTX 3080 card for my new system. then I read an article about the upcoming 3060 (non- Ti) which is going to spec out lower than the others in most areas, but will have 16GB. The card isn't out yet, but I thought I'd see if anyone here was talking about it at all. Then I cam across some posts that I had missed previously about the 30XX cards not working well (or at all) with Vegas, unless you got the Founder's edition.

Has there been any more news or developments about this? I'm starting to think that it is going to be smarter to go bigger on the CPU and just get a "better" GPU than I have now (GTX 1060 6G Founder's). As I've stated previously, I'm more interested in stability/playback, rather than render speed, so obviously a $700+ GPU that chokes my NLE is not going to make me very happy...

Comments

RogerS wrote on 1/19/2021, 9:11 AM

At this point we have a few anecdotes but not much reliable data.

Until we get a few 30XX systems in the benchmarking thread here:
https://www.vegascreativesoftware.info/us/forum/benchmarking-results-continued--118503/

or analyzed with VP 18 by TechGage, it's hard to say what combination will serve you best.

RogerS wrote on 1/19/2021, 9:00 PM

The most recent TechGage analysis was here. https://techgage.com/article/magix-vegas-pro-18-processor-graphics-card-performance/

I hope they update it soon as they've done benchmarking of newer AMD and NVIDIA cards since then.

Jessariah67 wrote on 1/19/2021, 9:32 PM

Hopefully they will. It's hard to believe that an RTX 30XX card won't work with Vegas.(But I'm not a tech/spec guy, so a lot of the details are beyond me...)

RogerS wrote on 1/19/2021, 10:13 PM

The 2080 Ti still looks like a good choice. The 30XX cards appear to work in Vegas link and a developer personally recommends the 2080 or 3080.

Last changed by RogerS on 1/20/2021, 1:44 AM, changed a total of 1 times.

Custom PC (2022) Intel i5-13600K with UHD 770 iGPU with latest driver, MSI z690 Tomahawk motherboard, 64GB Corsair DDR5 5200 ram, NVIDIA 2080 Super (8GB) with latest studio driver, 2TB Hynix P41 SSD and 2TB Samsung 980 Pro cache drive, Windows 11 Pro 64 bit https://pcpartpicker.com/b/rZ9NnQ

ASUS Zenbook Pro 14 Intel i9-13900H with Intel graphics iGPU with latest ASUS driver, NVIDIA 4060 (8GB) with latest studio driver, 48GB system ram, Windows 11 Home, 1TB Samsung SSD.

VEGAS Pro 21.208
VEGAS Pro 22.239

Try the
VEGAS 4K "sample project" benchmark (works with VP 16+): https://forms.gle/ypyrrbUghEiaf2aC7
VEGAS Pro 20 "Ad" benchmark (works with VP 20+): https://forms.gle/eErJTR87K2bbJc4Q7

AVsupport wrote on 1/21/2021, 1:40 AM

VP isn't known to be the fastest in adopting new technology. For long what I've seen was burn a lot of CPU, and not do much with RAM or GPU. My next upgrade will be CPU related, if I shall

my current Win10/64 system (latest drivers, water cooled) :

Intel Coffee Lake i5 Hexacore (unlocked, but not overclocked) 4.0 GHz on Z370 chipset board,

32GB (4x8GB Corsair Dual Channel DDR4-2133) XMP-3000 RAM,

Intel 600series 512GB M.2 SSD system drive running Win10/64 home automatic driver updates,

Crucial BX500 1TB EDIT 3D NAND SATA 2.5-inch SSD

2x 4TB 7200RPM NAS HGST data drive,

Intel HD630 iGPU - currently disabled in Bios,

nVidia GTX1060 6GB, always on latest [creator] drivers. nVidia HW acceleration enabled.

main screen 4K/50p 1ms scaled @175%, second screen 1920x1080/50p 1ms.

RogerS wrote on 1/21/2021, 1:55 AM

VP isn't known to be the fastest in adopting new technology. For long what I've seen was burn a lot of CPU, and not do much with RAM or GPU. My next upgrade will be CPU related, if I shall


Yes and no. Vegas does support NVIDIA GPUs, so a faster one is all things equal, faster. No need to wait for adoption. You can see it in the benchmark thread and the TechGage link I posted above. However if the NVENC encoding chip is re-used between generations, rendering won't be faster. If you use GPU enabled Fx or plug-ins like Neat Video that really leverage GPUs, you'll see bigger timeline and rendering performance gains.
Replacing CPUs isn't so easy but for a new build you have a chance to get a fast one that should perform well for years.

Grazie wrote on 1/21/2021, 3:00 AM

This thread is very relevant to my own particular position. My own concerns is the M3 and M4 MoBo pipeline... hmmm.. 🤔.

RogerS wrote on 1/21/2021, 3:15 AM

@Grazie What's your motherboard? Isn't your system quite new? It may already be PCI 4.0. At any rate it will work with 3.0.

This thread suggests the difference today is just a percent or two as there are other more important bottlenecks. I wouldn't worry about it. The builder should be able to confirm the power supply is adequate for the new card, which is more important.

Grazie wrote on 1/21/2021, 3:46 AM

@RogerS - Yes! Hot off of the PRESS: This morning I called my Builder and asked the question. He underlined your comment above. 😃

Teagan wrote on 1/21/2021, 7:12 AM

My 3080 works fine with VP17 for me. Although I don't remember the exact performance for my 1080 previously, the NVENC on the 3080 speeds up my HEVC renders two times as fast compared to just my 8700k alone.

Jessariah67 wrote on 1/21/2021, 7:14 AM

This is all great information!

It's funny, because of the GPU shortage, I feel like I've put WAY too much thought into it. I started at i9 10900K and a 3080, to Ryzen 5900 and a Radeon 6800 to Ryzen & 3080 to Ryzen & 2080 Super, and now back to i9 & 3080.

The learning curve & opinion parade tend to leave my head spinning at times...

I think that, as long as the 3080 and 2080 Super are (on paper) about the same price, it would make more sense to go with the newer technology, if performance (at this time) is about equal in Vegas, but would be noticeable in other apps, like After Effects.

It seems any of those combinations are gonna have a pretty healthy shelf life, and they will certainly (hopefully) be a noticeable improvement over my current i7 8700 / GTX 1060 6G system...

fr0sty wrote on 1/21/2021, 8:43 AM

The all AMD kit is the best bang for the buck as far as VEGAS goes. Some apps work better with Nvidia GPUs, but all should benefit from the AMD CPU.

RogerS wrote on 1/21/2021, 9:03 AM

Is that true for AMD, even foregoing QSV decoding? In the link I posted above, VegasPascal stated as his personal opinion:

My private suggestion for video editing is a Intel CPU (for QSV support) and a NVIDIA (2/3)080 RTX (for NVDEC/NVENC support)... and to spread the performance on different devices. QSV and NVENC are stable and supported by VEGAS and all other video editing tools. In our internal tests we see a huge boost by the latest Intel CPU with onboard GPU in combination with NVIDIA.

fr0sty wrote on 1/21/2021, 1:15 PM

I'm using a i9-9980hk paired with a RTX 2060 on my laptop, it holds its own ok against my desktop, with a much older Ryzen 7 1800x system with a Radeon VII GPU. I don't think the advantage is big enough to warrant paying that much extra money, and because I shoot 10 bit 4:2:2 video, none of the GPU decoders will work (a limitation of the GPUs themselves, not VEGAS), so raw CPU decoding power is more important to me. I still have to proxy all my 4k video regardless of which system i'm editing on.

Last changed by fr0sty on 1/21/2021, 1:18 PM, changed a total of 2 times.

Systems:

Desktop

AMD Ryzen 7 1800x 8 core 16 thread at stock speed

64GB 3000mhz DDR4

Geforce RTX 3090

Windows 10

Laptop:

ASUS Zenbook Pro Duo 32GB (9980HK CPU, RTX 2060 GPU, dual 4K touch screens, main one OLED HDR)

TheRhino wrote on 1/22/2021, 8:01 AM

IMO swapping-out GPUs is one of the easier upgrades anyone can do.... Therefore, if Vegas is your primary app you can start-out with a more affordable GPU & easily upgrade later if a new Vegas release or one of your other primary apps truly benefits from the pricier GPUs...

As noted elsewhere on these forums I was able to get a 3060 Ti for $400 from Best Buy when they just happened to be available online for a whole 10 minute stretch... IMO it's a good bang/buck for $400 because the performance matches or exceeds anything else out there for $400. I especially think it is a better bang/buck deal than an AMD 5700 XT... Since it is NEW, support should only grow & apps like Vegas MAY show performance gains over the 3xxx vs 2xxx series... If not you've lost nothing because, again, it's as good right now as anything else you will find for $400...

It's GREAT for games like Flight Simulator 2020 & some other NLEs & apps that are already optimized to better-utilize the GPU even though Vegas is not there yet... In Vegas, I got about the same performance on my 9900K system as my VEGA 64 LQ... Because the 3060 Ti has fans, it blocks a PCIe slot that I need, so I returned it & will considering buying a 3xxx GPU when I upgrade a 2nd workstation, likely using a motherboard that does not have the 2nd 16x PCIe slot as close to slot #1...

What I'm NOT going to do is pay $800+ for 3080 or $1400+ for a 3090 that does not show any real Vegas boost at this time... That money can be spent elsewhere & then if & when Vegas does fully support one of these newer GPUs I can just swap-out the GPU... IMO the 3060 Ti will HOLD its resale value a lot longer than the older GPUs, so if & when something faster comes along, you could get most of your money back...

Workstation C with $600 USD of upgrades in April, 2021
--$360 11700K @ 5.0ghz
--$200 ASRock W480 Creator (onboard 10G net, TB3, etc.)
Borrowed from my 9900K until prices drop:
--32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3200 ($100 on Black Friday...)
Reused from same Tower Case that housed the Xeon:
--Used VEGA 56 GPU ($200 on eBay before mining craze...)
--Noctua Cooler, 750W PSU, OS SSD, LSI RAID Controller, SATAs, etc.

Performs VERY close to my overclocked 9900K (below), but at stock settings with no tweaking...

Workstation D with $1,350 USD of upgrades in April, 2019
--$500 9900K @ 5.0ghz
--$140 Corsair H150i liquid cooling with 360mm radiator (3 fans)
--$200 open box Asus Z390 WS (PLX chip manages 4/5 PCIe slots)
--$160 32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3000 (added another 32GB later...)
--$350 refurbished, but like-new Radeon Vega 64 LQ (liquid cooled)

Renders Vegas11 "Red Car Test" (AMD VCE) in 13s when clocked at 4.9 ghz
(note: BOTH onboard Intel & Vega64 show utilization during QSV & VCE renders...)

Source Video1 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 on motherboard in RAID0
Source Video2 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 (1) via U.2 adapter & (1) on separate PCIe card
Target Video1 = 32TB RAID0--(4) 8TB SATA hot-swap drives on PCIe RAID card with backups elsewhere

10G Network using used $30 Mellanox2 Adapters & Qnap QSW-M408-2C 10G Switch
Copy of Work Files, Source & Output Video, OS Images on QNAP 653b NAS with (6) 14TB WD RED
Blackmagic Decklink PCie card for capturing from tape, etc.
(2) internal BR Burners connected via USB 3.0 to SATA adapters
Old Cooler Master CM Stacker ATX case with (13) 5.25" front drive-bays holds & cools everything.

Workstations A & B are the 2 remaining 6-core 4.0ghz Xeon 5660 or I7 980x on Asus P6T6 motherboards.

$999 Walmart Evoo 17 Laptop with I7-9750H 6-core CPU, RTX 2060, (2) M.2 bays & (1) SSD bay...

Grazie wrote on 1/22/2021, 8:19 AM

@TheRhino - Understood, except, I’m already being covered for “a” replacement with Labour and parts, so I’m not purchasing anything. 😉

Jessariah67 wrote on 1/22/2021, 10:05 AM

Thanks, guys! This has all been so helpful. I think I am going to go with the 3060 ti (they also are coming out with a 3060 next month - no "Ti" but it will have 16G memory), as it seems that that particular GPU isn't suffering as much of the outrageous price bloat, since it isn't "the one that every body wants" - like the 3080 is.

I'm also probably going to go with the i9 10th gen, as I need the onboard GPU for my fifth monitor. Was thinking about putting my 1060 in the new build for that, but I know running the fifth monitor off of the intel graphics works, and I don't want to deal with tow different cards not liking each other (or what ever other complications might arise). Plus, if the 3060ti actually takes up three slots because of the fan (if that's what TheRhino meant), then I'd have to get an even larger case & MB.

TheRhino wrote on 1/22/2021, 6:21 PM

@Jessariah67 Yes, my 3060 Ti, although only taking-up (2) side-by-side expansion slots on the back of the case, has the fans sticking-out past the 2nd slot well into the (3rd) slot, which is occupied by a x16 PCIe on my motherboard... I purposefully bought the Asus Z390 WS Pro motherboard because it has a PLX chip to maximize PCIe sharing & it overclocks to 5.0 ghz well... On this motherboard, I can run the (4) x16 PCIe slots 8x/8x/8x/8x and then there is a 5th x4 PCIe that can run in either 4x or 2x depending on the SATA & M.2 settings... In Vegas & most apps there is NO difference between running the GPU at 8x vs 16x even on a PCIe 3.0 slot..., and that frees me to have a 10G network card, LSI Hardware RAID card, Blackmagic capture card, M.2 adapter & Thunderbolt... Some other motherboards only put a tiny x4 slot next to the first GPU, so blocking it is not a big deal...

Workstation C with $600 USD of upgrades in April, 2021
--$360 11700K @ 5.0ghz
--$200 ASRock W480 Creator (onboard 10G net, TB3, etc.)
Borrowed from my 9900K until prices drop:
--32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3200 ($100 on Black Friday...)
Reused from same Tower Case that housed the Xeon:
--Used VEGA 56 GPU ($200 on eBay before mining craze...)
--Noctua Cooler, 750W PSU, OS SSD, LSI RAID Controller, SATAs, etc.

Performs VERY close to my overclocked 9900K (below), but at stock settings with no tweaking...

Workstation D with $1,350 USD of upgrades in April, 2019
--$500 9900K @ 5.0ghz
--$140 Corsair H150i liquid cooling with 360mm radiator (3 fans)
--$200 open box Asus Z390 WS (PLX chip manages 4/5 PCIe slots)
--$160 32GB of G.Skill DDR4 3000 (added another 32GB later...)
--$350 refurbished, but like-new Radeon Vega 64 LQ (liquid cooled)

Renders Vegas11 "Red Car Test" (AMD VCE) in 13s when clocked at 4.9 ghz
(note: BOTH onboard Intel & Vega64 show utilization during QSV & VCE renders...)

Source Video1 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 on motherboard in RAID0
Source Video2 = 4TB RAID0--(2) 2TB M.2 (1) via U.2 adapter & (1) on separate PCIe card
Target Video1 = 32TB RAID0--(4) 8TB SATA hot-swap drives on PCIe RAID card with backups elsewhere

10G Network using used $30 Mellanox2 Adapters & Qnap QSW-M408-2C 10G Switch
Copy of Work Files, Source & Output Video, OS Images on QNAP 653b NAS with (6) 14TB WD RED
Blackmagic Decklink PCie card for capturing from tape, etc.
(2) internal BR Burners connected via USB 3.0 to SATA adapters
Old Cooler Master CM Stacker ATX case with (13) 5.25" front drive-bays holds & cools everything.

Workstations A & B are the 2 remaining 6-core 4.0ghz Xeon 5660 or I7 980x on Asus P6T6 motherboards.

$999 Walmart Evoo 17 Laptop with I7-9750H 6-core CPU, RTX 2060, (2) M.2 bays & (1) SSD bay...