OT: Photo Montages and Copyrighted Music (Long)

twhitak wrote on 6/11/2004, 11:29 AM
OK, I'll give a little background before I get to my questions. I recently did a photo/video montage to give to my wife on our anniversary. I used Pinnacle Studio 8 to produce the video (very painful) and used the Carly Simon/Marvin Hamlish "Nobody Does it Better" as background music. The wife went NUTS over it so I started thinking this may be a way to make some money on the side.

The first order of business was to get a better video editor, so I bought VV5. While I waited for my software to arrive, I began thinking about all the different songs I could use to produce photo montages for weddings, anniversarys, etc. Then I started reading the forums and found out that my great idea had some kinks in it.

As a hobbyist songwriter myself, I have always been a strong supporter of copyright and fair use. However, I was under the mistaken impression (like many I've read about here) that believe if a person gives you an original CD to use as background music in the production of their montage, that would be fair use. Then, Spot and others busted that bubble.

OK, so then I started looking for buyout music libraries but I'm on a tight budget and they all seem too expensive (or at least more than I want to pay) and/or don't include the songs that I want to use. So, then I come up with the idea of recording the music myself in my home studio.

I saw in a post on copyright somewhere on this forum a while back about the relative ease of getting a license to do a "cover" version of an already published/distributed song. Given the time and effort, I can do a pretty good job of duplicating the accompaniament of a piece of music, so here are my questions (finally):

1) Let's say I want to use an instrumental version of Chicago's "You're the Inspiration" in a photo montage. I duplicate their production of the song using my equipment. What do I need to do to be able to use it LEGALLY in a photo montage I sell to clients?

2) OK, now let's say that my version of the song turns out so good that I want to use it in MY OWN buyout music library. Can I do that and if so, how would I handle the legalities of it?

I believe this is a little different spin on the subject than I've seen before on this forum. If not, please bear with me, and thanks for any help/advice you can provide.

Comments

goshep wrote on 6/11/2004, 5:02 PM
Spot posted a link to a very informative article he wrote a while ago. Give it a search in the forums.

The rules I live by:

1. If you didn't get permission (and you won't) or...
2. If you didn't pay thousands (and you will) chances are very, very good that the use of the material is copyright infringement.

BTW, if you're gonna risk getting sued, at least pick something better than "You're the Inspiration." ;)
farss wrote on 6/11/2004, 7:40 PM
If you live in Australia or certain parts of the world then you can get a licence to use music which the client already owns a copy of in productions for their personal use. Obviously you cannot sell those productions to 3rd parties. But you can certainly offer usch as service.
As to your alternate plan I don't really know, you've still at the very least got to pay the composer or whoever owns the copyright to the composition. You can use music for which the copyright has expired and make your own recordings freely of course. Most of the classics would fall into this category.
SPOT did have quite a bit of info about that in one of his posts.
twhitak wrote on 6/11/2004, 8:19 PM
After doing a bit more research, I think I've found an answer to my main question which was basically about finding a way to circumvent (legally) having to get a sync license. Getting a mechanical license, to simply record and sell a sound recording, seems to be relatively painless and inexpensive. However, doing my own recording would NOT prevent me from still having to get a sync license to use the music in a video. So, oh well, I guess I'm back to either using a buyout library or using my own compositions.

A confirmation on this latest information from Spot or someone else in the know would be appreciated. As always, thanks for the help.

P.S. to goshep: Don't underestimate the power of Chicago tunes in wedding proceedings. Then again, I may just be showing my age. ;-)
efiebke wrote on 6/11/2004, 8:44 PM
Here's a web site that deals with copyright issues and mechanical licenses, etc. Hope you find it helpful. . .

http://www.harryfox.com/

Ted

P. S. Just a suggestion. . . Why not write your own music? :)
RalphM wrote on 6/11/2004, 8:47 PM
Two licensing sources that have reasonably good music are magnatunes.com and freshmusic.com. Of course, there will be no Chicago tunes in there.

I also purchased a set of discs from TracksNOW which has quite a few decent tunes for a very reasonable price.
kameronj wrote on 6/11/2004, 9:51 PM
Getting the license to do a cover of work already published is almost easier than setting up a Hotmail account. And, relatively speaking, it is not very expensive. (Depending on how many copies you are talking about...of course).

As it was already listed....go to harry fox. That's all you really need to know there. Once you pay for the license...you can turn around and sell your work all you want.

The advice on writing your own music is a great one. Or....collab with other artists and work together on original stuff.

I think you are on the right path.

By the way...if you ever question anything about copyrights (in the States...anyway)...go to the source. Go to the library of congress website. Everything you need to know is there.
filmy wrote on 6/12/2004, 8:18 AM
A few corrections and points -

Anyone can do a cover version of a song. You do *not* need to go out and obtain any sort of permission or license to do that. In short - just do it.

You can record any cover tune you want - no problem. It will be your recorded version if you put it out than you will own your own mechanicals. In this case the mechancals are not any issue.

Where the real issue comes into play with this is publishing. The second you record a cover song and make it available in some recorded form the publishing comes into play. So if you are putting put your own CD than *you* have to pay the publishing on this. If you are putting your version of a song on a wedding video and selling that, again, *you* have to pay the publishing on this.

All things considered publishing is relativly painless if that is all you are going to worry about. This is very cheap in the grand scheme of things...take a look around in the stores. If it was expensive things like these Kids Bop and all the indy release "tribute" cd's would never come out. The difference however is that *you* are not the one paying the publishing, the label is.

On the subject of Harry Fox. I have said this before but they are a bit cheeky and misleading (ie - dishonest) is how they work things. They used to say they represented everything on their site - however it was a lie. One day I did a search for a slighty obscure song and when it came up, much to my surprise, I searched for other some other music and it was also there - matter of fact every song from all 10 of their albums was "represented" by Harry Fox. I called artist and said "Hey I didn't know Harry Fox Agency was handling your music for film and video" and the response may be "What?!?!?! No they aren't!!" I did this for a few other people I know with the same results. Shortly after this Harry Fox mysteriously stopped doing sync licenses.

If you need this sort of thing you do not need Harry Fox, I sort of look at them as the K-Tel or Napster of things now. If you have read other posts (including mine) in other thread you can get links for other companies who do sync license work. For publishing and who to pay it is very easy to go to the sources - ASCAP, BMI, SOCAN and so on.
kameronj wrote on 6/13/2004, 8:26 AM
A few corrections to the corrections.

Anyon can do a cover version of a song....this is true. But....without obtaining the proper licenses to release your version of the cover song (mecahnical, sync, night club....whatever)....The only place you can have said song listened to is in your shower.

While it is true that for permissions you could go directly to the publisher (search for them via ASCAP, BMI, etc) ... mechanicals are a different ball of wax and you don't need anyone's permission - all you have to do is pay the piper.

My suggestion....read the offical information regarding copyrights for yourself at the library of congress website - read the official information for yourself at the Harry Fox website....and contact places like ASCAP and BMI and ask them for specifics.

All the information you need is available at their websites, and I have picked up the phone and spoken with ASCAP on many occasions (prior to joining) to find out all the information I needed.

It's really simple to do.

So, in short, although a web forum is a good place to bounce around ideas....it's ALWAYS better to just simply go to the source.
filmy wrote on 6/13/2004, 9:44 AM
>>> A few corrections to the corrections.<<<

Just re-wording part of what I said. But the reason I said what I did is because you do not need to obtain *any* license to do a cover of any music. Period. Than I went on to tell *when* you need to worry about that. And that was the second *you* put that recording on something and offered it to the public you would need to deal with some things. The mechanical portion would be something that you, the artist who just covered it and recorded it (as opposed to any other person *paying for* the recording of said music), would now "own" because it would be a new recording. You need to get the mechanical part worked out if you are using an already recorded version, but in the case we are talking about in this thread it would be a self produced,self recorded, version. So in a sense you just reworded what I already had stated, tossed in a bit of misinformationm and made it seem as though you were correcting what I stated. Sounds like you are running for office. ;)

>>>While it is true that for permissions you could go directly to the publisher (search for them via ASCAP, BMI, etc) ... mechanicals are a different ball of wax and you don't need anyone's permission - all you have to do is pay the piper.<<<

Untrue...the comment about "mechanicals are a different ball of wax and you don't need anyone's permission" that is. No one is *required* to allow another persons use of a recording. Any label can say "no". Any artist who has self produced can say "no". As an example try using some of Spot's music in an adult video...after all according to what you just said you do not need permission to use the actual recording...just get a hold of his CD and slap it in and "just pay the piper". This might work for a while if you went with someone like Harry Fox but you would, and the agency that falsely 'sold' you said rights, be caught up to at some point.

Sorry if it sounds like I am just being a poopy head but when I see a post that follows mine saying "A few corrections to the corrections." and most of said post is simply restating what I already said and tossing in a bit of mis-information I feel a need to clear it up.