OT - Portable PA systems with balanced line out

24Peter wrote on 5/20/2014, 11:16 AM

I occasionally shoot live events for clients. One particular client is a non-profit arts organization that has monthly speaker panels (3-4 speakers). The venues sometimes have PA systems, but I am usually left capturing live audio via an on-camera shotgun mic and we all know how that goes. They are amenable to purchasing their own PA system and I would like to recommend one that has some kind of usable output for me to take directly into my camera (AG-AC90). Ideally it would be a balanced line out since I may have to run up 50ft or more of cable to get to my camera (I have two balanced XLR inputs).

They are a non-profit arts org so cheaper is better. At a minimum it should have two amplified speakers for the audience, the ability to mix four mics and an output for me (mono is fine). Any suggestions?

Comments

musicvid10 wrote on 5/20/2014, 12:54 PM

You will get a variety of opinions about portable mixer/PA packages. Depends on if you have a dedicated sound person; I don't recommend one person having to shoot and jockey the board at the same time.

If what you really want is to walk in, plug in, and roll, a pair of active DI boxes with ground lift and attenuation are indispensable. Their purpose is to convert unbalanced to balanced and isolate the ground for long runs without hum. They'll even take speaker level down to line if absolutely necessary.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/212687-REG/Behringer_DI100_ULTRA_DI_DI100_Direct_Box.html

Guy S. wrote on 5/20/2014, 1:53 PM

I recently purchased a Yamaha StagePas 300 all-in-one self-contained PA system to cover our 120' wide x 50' deep outdoor meeting area and have been impressed with the tonal quality, coverage angle, and ease of setup/operation.

The 600i (~$900) is a significant upgrade in that it has automatic feedback suppression which will be important with multiple microphones in use. The monitor outputs appear to be unbalanced, but you can use a direct box to convert from the +4dB unbalanced line level signal to balanced line or mic level to accommodate your 50' run.

The mixer docks inside one of the speakers and the other speaker has a compartment for power cord and speaker cables. Accessories include a wheeled transport case (~$125) and pole mount adapters (~$25) so you can mount the speakers on stands.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/StagePas600i/

You'll need to choose microphones carefully to get enough sound before the system feeds back. What you choose will depend on mic-to-subject distance, the acoustical environment, and desired loudness. Your local dealer should be able to make appropriate recommendations.

musicvid10 wrote on 5/20/2014, 2:43 PM

Yes, feedback is a big problem with any of those self-contained PA systems. That's because the speakers are designed for wide, rather than focused coverage. That's also why I avoided making any specific recommendation.

24Peter wrote on 5/21/2014, 10:58 AM

Thanks guys for the suggestions. Looks like the StagePas 400i might be a good compromise: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/StagePas400i

musicvid10 wrote on 5/21/2014, 12:40 PM

Audience size?

riredale wrote on 5/21/2014, 1:14 PM

What I've done with theater/church setups is to take my tiny little Tascam flash-memory recorder over to the sound board and utilize the headphone jack. Setting the level takes only a few moments before the performance. Then I have pristine audio without the need to run a length of cable to my camera location, which can be a headache in itself. Syncing up afterwards is a snap.

rs170a wrote on 5/21/2014, 2:00 PM

Looks like the StagePas 400i might be a good compromise

I love the marketing "line" about this PA :)
No volume knob that goes to 11 though :(

Finally, a "Just Sound Better" EQ knob
In addition to the two-band EQ available on each channel, the StagePas 400i boasts a one-knob master EQ. This intuitive knob makes it easy to optimize your sound for different situations, and it's perfect for schools or houses of worship where just about anyone could be controlling the system on any given day. Especially if your performance involves a mixture of speaking and various types of music, you'll love how easy it is to get a polished sound fast.

Mike

musicvid10 wrote on 5/21/2014, 2:36 PM

I have lots of experience with Yamaha powered gear, and those controls are unnecessarily conservative. The feedback control, in particular, is a power sucker, and huge overkill once the seats are filled with soft bodies.

In the hands of a savvy tech, the Yamaha sound is quite good. Its those wide-splay speakers I object to the most, and are almost impossible to control with moving talent or body mics. About the only portable system speakers that succeed at making acoustic feedback manageable are Mackie, and JBL are by far the worst.

That's my experience.

24Peter wrote on 5/21/2014, 4:26 PM

Thanks again everyone for the discussion.

[I]What I've done with theater/church setups is to take my tiny little Tascam flash-memory recorder over to the sound board and utilize the headphone jack. Setting the level takes only a few moments before the performance. Then I have pristine audio without the need to run a length of cable to my camera location, which can be a headache in itself. Syncing up afterwards is a snap.[/I]

This assumes there is a sound board! But if one of these PA systems has a headphone jack, can I use something like a Tascam DR-05 to record audio?

musicvid10 wrote on 5/21/2014, 6:29 PM

You've taken yourself full circle, Peter.
With a pair of active direct boxes, having ground lift and selectable attenuation, you can plug your recorder (or camcorder) into ANYTHING, even including splitting off speaker terminals in a pinch. I can't imagine anyone heading for a gig without them.
Best.

24Peter wrote on 5/21/2014, 6:54 PM

[I]You've taken yourself full circle, Peter.[/I]

Wouldn't be the first time... ;-) Thanks for the careful insights.

paul_w wrote on 5/22/2014, 5:56 AM

Well, the professional way to do this (money no object) would be to use balanced Y mic splitters (like EMO units) for each XLR coming in to the mixer and then break out the 4 mic signals through a multicore cable to your own mixer next to your camera.
Then take the line out LEFT RIGHT from that desk to your camera, which would be balanced or Di'ed. Advantage is, you have complete control over the mix regardless what any sound guy is doing for speaker levels and eq.. Maybe a bit overkill in your case. But this is the way we did it for larger music shows for feeding to the video crew. The BBC for example would never rely on a left right feed from the sound board. Actually our Y splits where in a stage box and in our case had 48 channels but its the same goal.
Phantom power needs to be on at the sound desk if needed and off at the vision sound desk.
Maybe no totally out of question if you're only dealing with 4 channels?.

Paul.