OT: Preventing drop outs?

Sticky Fingaz wrote on 5/17/2004, 12:18 PM
I was given great advice here on how to prevent drop outs. I bought a Sony brand miniDV head cleaner, and stuck solely to Sony tapes. I have a VX 2000 and Sony DSR 250 camcorder and both experienced dropouts a LOT before using the advice here.

However, dropouts started again. I have an old Sony MiniDV cam that I use to capture the tapes, since some of the older tapes I use are JVC and Maxell and don't want to infect my two expensive Sony's with them. I was wondering, if I put an old JCV miniDV tape in the old Sony I use for capturing, then use a new Sony tape in the old MiniDV cam after that, is that Sony tape now "infected"?

I am just trying to figure out how a camera we spent $1,500 and $5,000 on still has this problem. We stuck to Sony tapes, and use the Sony head cleaner maybe once a month, or if we ever unfortunately have to stick a non Sony tape in it. I am starting to get really busy shooting weddings, and would die if this happened during wedding vows at the church or something.

Any advice would be REALLY appreciated.

Comments

Jay Gladwell wrote on 5/17/2004, 12:24 PM
It could be a number of things. The cleaning tape may not be doing the job. You might have to send the camera in for a head cleaning.

J--
Sticky Fingaz wrote on 5/17/2004, 12:29 PM
It's 3 months old.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 5/17/2004, 12:34 PM
So how many hours of tape do you run through the camera between cleanings? You can clean it too often and damage the heads.

J
Sticky Fingaz wrote on 5/17/2004, 12:36 PM
I only clean it about once a month, maybe every other month, of if we have to put in a non Sony tape, which is VERY rare
Jay Gladwell wrote on 5/17/2004, 12:44 PM
Time is not the issue, the amount of tape you run through the camera is. You should be cleaning the heads after you've run 50 hours of tape over the heads. Any more than that and you run the risk of damaging the heads.

J--
Sticky Fingaz wrote on 5/17/2004, 12:49 PM
OK we definately barely use it though. If I did damage the heads (doubt it) do they get cleaned or is the camera garbage?
dvdude wrote on 5/17/2004, 1:13 PM
I guess people clean heads profilactically huh?

I haven't done this at all on either of my cameras, the oldest being almost 5 years old, serving as both "cam 2" and the transport for capture/ptt.

50 hours sounds very frequent to me, my plan is to never clean them unless I see symptoms. I do adhere to the "one formulation only" theory regarding tape though.

I wouldn't be able to guess the number of hours on "old reliable", but it's probably a lot - I used to black my tapes prior to use until I got wise, so most of my tape collection has been through the machine at least 3 times.
Jsnkc wrote on 5/17/2004, 1:15 PM
After the next cleaning you might want to try switching brands of tapes. We have had LOTS of problems with dropouts on Sony tapes. We have now switched over to Panasonic tapes and we no longer have dropout problems.
Bill Ravens wrote on 5/17/2004, 1:20 PM
Two issues of note. Sony tape uses a wet lubricant to lube the tape. Other tape manufacturers use a dry lube. There is a chemical reaction between the wet lube and the dry lube that results in a gummy residue that can't be cleaned with a tape cleaner. The only solution is to send it to the factory for cleaning.

Tape dropouts also occur when the VPD deposited magnetic material flakes off of the tape substrate. Flaking happens when the tape gets kinked or when you leave the tape in the camera transport for too long. Are you sure your dropout problem is related to your camera and not your tape?
Sticky Fingaz wrote on 5/17/2004, 2:51 PM
I might leave a tape in the camera for a day or two??
riredale wrote on 5/17/2004, 4:47 PM
Can't remember where I read it a few months ago, but someone said that the tape manufacturers long ago solved the "incompatible formulation" issue.

I am discriminating and buy only the cheap TDK tape 6-packs at Costco ($25). At this point I'm through about 120 tapes since 2000 and have only experienced two "glitches" that were probably attributable to tape errors. And that's including my time with Studio7, where I used the Preview mode and the camcorder really worked the tapes over in the final compilation.

So in my limited experience I'd have to surmise it's the brand of tape or a miscalibrated camcorder that's causing your problems.
craftech wrote on 5/17/2004, 5:48 PM
It is unlikely you ruined the heads. If the dropouts are definitely coming from the camera I would ditch the Sony tapes and switch to Panasonic PQ after a tape head cleaning.

Now, are we talking about dropouts during a Vegas capture?

Or do you see the dropouts when you play the tape directly through a monitor using the camera as a deck?

Do you still see it if you play it using a different camera?

John
Sticky Fingaz wrote on 5/17/2004, 8:47 PM
It looks like 1 inch is stuck on a frame, the other inch is moving video, other inch is stuck frame, etc.

I see it no matter what, if I capture it, watch it on the LCD screen, anything. I will consider switching to Panasonic PQ tapes but it would bother me if I had to since a ton of people here told me to pick up Sony, and I bought a ton of 'em after not having problems for a few weeks.
baysidebas wrote on 5/18/2004, 7:19 AM
Make it a habit to do a test playback whenever you use the camera. Dirty heads will affect playback long before they'll affect recording.
dvdude wrote on 5/18/2004, 7:40 AM
I should've mentioned I only use Panasonic tapes too I guess.....

A bit OT this bit:

Is anyone concerned about long term retention? What I mean is, we know that tape is not really considered a truly archival medium (at least, not for those of us without ideal storage conditions). But provided we get to it soon enough, DV allows us to copy to fresh media without a quality hit. Does anyone have any idea how often (if it all) such refreshes should be considered? My first DV tapes are now 5 years old - I'd hate to lose that stuff.
Jay Gladwell wrote on 5/18/2004, 7:50 AM
The brand of the tape (Sony, Panasonic, etc.) isn't as important as the grade of the tape. Regardless of the brand you select, I would suggest you spring for the few extra dollars and buy "Master" grade tape. It's beefier, more dependable tape!

I recently switched to Sony's Digital Master. Yes, it costs more, but it reduces the risk of dropout and glitches by 90% over "consumer" tape.

So, assuming your problem is a tape issue, the question you need to ask yourself is, Is reducing the odds of dropout and ruining projects worth the expense of a few extra dollars?

J--
logiquem wrote on 5/18/2004, 7:56 AM
I don't know for Sony cam, but repeated head cleaning is not good idea with my DVX100. Panasonics strongly advice against using head cleaning tape frequently.