Comments

Spot|DSE wrote on 11/25/2005, 6:25 PM
You're not safe at all. Them performing those songs live is one thing, you syncing video to those songs is another. You'd owe the original author of the song a compulsory, plus a sync fee, and you've gotten out of the performance if the band is allowing it.
Worse...if the band has recorded those covers, and they're not public domain, and they're not paying mechanicals to the original author/publisher of the song...they are also in jeopardy.
filmy wrote on 11/25/2005, 7:08 PM
Using their version as far as the mechanicals / Master Use License go are fine, provided that the band is actually the ones putting out the CD *and* the ones who own the master recording, make sure they sign off on it. The sync license in this case is a little catchy - While the band can give you permission to use their version of the song you can't avoid still having to pay fees to the actual songwriters.

Keep in mind you do not need permission to simply cover a song. Normally whoever is distributing the album/DVD/Video/Cable/broadcast and so on, is paying the publishing on the songs. If you will be self distributing you will be the one paying out the publishing. However as the editor / producer / director on this project is would be in your best intrest to either put a hopld harmless clause in any ditribution deal that you make. make sure you have music cue sheets with all the publishing info to run over to the distributor as well.

Just som FYI links of example forms:

Sync License.
Mechanical License.
Master License
filmy wrote on 11/25/2005, 7:17 PM
LOL! SO I was posting and then doing a search as to not repeat myself that much, so I hit post and see you posted as I was searcging, thusly posting before I did. Now all I can say in response to Spots post is this:

RE: Copyright can of worms.
farss wrote on 11/25/2005, 7:23 PM
This is where I get a little bit confused.
If it's just a CD of my client singing covers then it's a set fee to the authors / publishers, down here that's handled through APRA and it's just a cost per number of copies.
However when I record the same artist as a video things seem to get more complicated, apart from the sync fee (which just covers me syncing music to vision but not applicable here as the artist owns the copyright to his performance) don't we have to negotiate with the author / publishers, by that I mean there's no set fees or bodies handling that?
This has come up for me more than once and I gotta say I'm a tad confused. I would have thought mechanicals and sync fees don't apply here, they only come into play when I'm using recorded works that someone other than the artist whom I'm shooting owns.

I think it's ASCAP down here who handle sync fees (which are pretty hefty!) but only for their members but my 'performer / client' isn't covered by them.

Bob.
filmy wrote on 11/25/2005, 7:36 PM
Not sure about there but I think the basics would be the same - and it all gets a bit muddy at times I know - but if you, as an Editor / Director / Producer or whatever go to an artist and have them *record something for your project and it is a cover you would need to get a mechanical in order to record it. (Which here in the States I think is something like 42 bucks.) However if you go to an artist who already has an album out and you want to use a song on the CD that happens to be a cover you would not need to worry about the mechanical, as far as the actual recording of the song goes.

Now - in the scenrio laid out by Jeff you have an already existing pice of music. All Jeff needs to do is get -

Master Use
Sync
(and work out royalites)

So he has, according to what I read in Jeff's post, given him the master use rights. Now the sync license is what I think is the tricky part - the band can say he can sync their version of the song to the film - not any problem there, however it is a cover. Jeff still needs to go to the publisher.

Want to add some more confusion into the mix? How different is the cover? It is fully possible for an artist to take a song and do their own arrangement of it. In which case it would be fully concievable to have to not only get clearance for the orginal but also the newly rearanged version. An example might be taking Stairway to Heaven and rearranging it for a 100 piece orchestra. If you were *recording it you would need to take care of the mechanical based on the orginal. However if you were using the new version you would need to take care of the new version first - which would mean you have to get a new mechanical to record the "new" version.

* By record I mean bringing someone in as a "work for hire". I guess one could say going to "record" a live show where an artist does a cover concievably fall under the same thing. I think I have asked you this before but when they televise "Big Day Out" and bands do cover tunes how is that handled?

EDIT - Spelling
farss wrote on 11/25/2005, 7:51 PM
Well the last bit was where we have come a bit unstuck, even a CD recording if as you say is substantially different to the original composition isn't covered by mechanical copyright. Changing key is OK it seems but alter lyrics and you fall outside the realm of mechincal copyright.

I just went back and read what DSE was saying in another thread and it was pretty much what I'd seen as being the issue. Put it on a CD and well it's just another guy singing the same song. Record the image of that guy singing the same song and it can have a whole new connotation, one that the original author / publisher may not want, period.

Only reason I like to get these matters VERY clear in my head is that at the level I oftenly work it's VERY difficult to explain to a client, copyright mostly people seem to grasp pretty easily, even those who don't respect it. When it comes to sync rights though they get a bit lost.

Bob.
filmy wrote on 11/25/2005, 8:25 PM
>>>When it comes to sync rights though they get a bit lost.<<<

For me I just always use the term as I would any audio - when you sync audio you are normally, in the context of editing, putting it with some sort of picture. As in "Syncing Dailies". To me a far more confusing issue is the whole "public performance" issue that we have here. Somehow I think the two are a bit more tightly wound than they need to be.

I think most people would get that if they walked into a venue, paid money to see the event, and they heard or saw something familur - in this case a song - most would probably get the concept of why the venue needs to pay a fee and how that adds to the fee they have to pay. However most people do not get the differance between putting a CD, or a film, on when you have a party at your house and putting the same CD or film on in a bar or a nightclub. (or even a school or a church for that matter) And now we have Karaoke - a whole other set of worms.

So just tossing any sort of "sync" into this mess and the brain starts doing flip flops. So for me unless there is a real need to go that deep into it all I tell people sync license is simply any audio that will be synced to the visuals and unless that person owns the audio chances are they will have to pay for it's use. Overly simple, but when all else fails.