OT: shooting in mixed light

slacy wrote on 5/10/2005, 2:38 PM
So I had a frustrating shoot today. My job today was to follow around a restaurant manager, reality style. She was wired up with a wireless microphone, then we turned her loose and I followed her as she bustled around a crowded restaurant. Problem was, she was moving very quickly among three parts of the restaurant which were lit alternately by flourescent lights, tungsten lights, and sunlight from the street. It was a white balance and exposure nightmare. My VX2000 will not permit me to change white balance while the camera is recording, so I kept having to make a choice between leaving the color alone or stopping the tape while she was speaking to make the white balance change. A pretty bad choice.

I could go on and on, but here's my question: how do the pro shooters in here handle such a situation? Do you suck it up and go automatic, which we're all trained to never do? Or do you just accept that certain environments will yield substandard video?

I should point out that this is a monthly low-budget project for a supermarket chain--roughly $350 per finished minute--and the client is exceedingly accepting of less-than-polished work. But as a professional, or someone who aspires to be a professional, I hate trafficking in work that doesn't meet certain basic standards.

Any thoughts?

Comments

BillyBoy wrote on 5/10/2005, 2:53 PM
I'll assume its some kind of "training" vid. If so, and you already said that the client is exceedingly accepting, then focus on being sure you make good shots and don't miss any of the "action", not that they are perfectly color balanced. Then adjust the best you can in post.
winrockpost wrote on 5/10/2005, 2:55 PM
I would not go on full automatic, but probably would set auto white or a preset balance , and be manning the iris like crazy.

And then of if the whites were a problem.............. fix it in post
slacy wrote on 5/10/2005, 2:55 PM
BB,

Is it easier to color-correct blue footage or yellow footage? Or is it equally challenging?

It'd be good to know which way to shoot it next time.

Scott
slacy wrote on 5/10/2005, 3:00 PM
I could be wrong, but I don't think there's any way to shoot auto-white on the VX2000 without going into full-blown auto mode. If there is, that would be a reasonable solution.
BillyBoy wrote on 5/10/2005, 3:15 PM
It really shouldn't matter that much. In post begin by setting "proper" white and black points then after you should be pretty close that many times all you need to do is nudge the middle color wheel in color corrector to either cool down or warm up and things should be acceptable. If you have to make a choice, when shooting I would error towards the blue side... just me, but I find it easier to warm up skin tones rather then cooling them down once you're working in Vegas.
farss wrote on 5/10/2005, 3:47 PM
SImple suggestion. Set the white balance to match the daylight that gets into the shot, this is the way Hollywood handles it and for good reason. We're used to the idea that candles and tungsten lighting is warm compared to daylight, we're almost used to the idea that fluros can be green compared to daylight. We don;t accpet the opposite, that daylight is very blue!

You cannot easily fix any of this on post, I'd suggest don;t waste your time trying either. Reason is that you'll have shots with mixed color temp, you'll even get shadows that are different colors. I've been there and done that, trying to 'fix' it usually makes more of a mess than just leaving it alone unless you want to use some high end tools or spend forever in post.

In summary, balance for the daylight and as said, concentrate on getting the shots, worry about good sound and good focus and ignore the WB. This is reality and it sucks, so leave the colors as they are.

Bob.
RalphM wrote on 5/10/2005, 4:26 PM
Not to add more irritation to your situation, but there is a way to control white balance on the VX2K while you shoot. Using the custom preset function, you can alter the balance a lot while recording.

I use this feature all the time when transfering old movie film where people forget to change the filter when going outdoors or the film has suffered a color shift as it ages.

Of course, you can also control exposure on the fly as well.

RalphM
slacy wrote on 5/10/2005, 8:44 PM
Thanks BB, Bob, Ralph. These are all great suggestions. If only I had asked yesterday!
MH_Stevens wrote on 5/10/2005, 8:52 PM
Failing three cameras and two assistants, go to the window and white balance for the sunlight. Wait for her to come to you. Go to the tungsten, white balance and again wait for her to come to you, etc. I'm sure she is running around all day. You should have plenty oppertunities to get your shots.

Never say "I'll sort it out in post"!

Mike
rmack350 wrote on 5/10/2005, 9:03 PM
You'll hate this one.

Buy some rolls of CTO or even CTO+ND and then hire an experienced grip to gel the windows. You stick it up to a clean window with slightly soapy water and a squeejie.

Even after you've squeegied the stuff onto the windows you may want to reinforce the edges with tape. use continuous lengths of 1" photoblack paper tape and it'll just look like part of the window. Photoblack is jet black on both sides and is kind of expensive compared to regular black tape. But sometimes it's required. (I keep both types on my tape roll and use the cheaper stuff for hot surfaces because the glue doesn't soften up much when hot.)

The gel rolls are about $100 bucks per 25' roll. You might be able to find a window treatement person who could do this for you if you don't trust the local grips.

Rob Mack
farss wrote on 5/10/2005, 9:21 PM
If you were going to all that trouble you could also consider replacing any fluro tubes with Osram tubes that are tungsten balanced for just this purpose. You may not find ones that fit every size fixture though.

Normal tubes labelled 'warm white' are close but every manufacturer has their own idea of just what 'warm white' is.
Bob.
BrianStanding wrote on 5/11/2005, 5:55 AM
Or, you could make it black and white. Color balance problem solved!

Just kidding. ;-)

What I would probably do is try to switch back and forth between Full Auto (to set exposure and WB) and Manual (to lock settings in place) on the fly. Not the easiest thing in the world, but if you keep one hand on the Auto/Manual switch it's not too bad. You may lose a couple of frames when you switch, but it's better than stopping the tape.

shawnm wrote on 5/11/2005, 5:04 PM
The easiest way to correct this problem is to put a color temperature blue filter on the camera lens and white balance to that. It's not optimal, but if your business is run and gun, there isn't much of an alternative.

Thanks,

Shawn
slacy wrote on 5/11/2005, 5:38 PM
Wow, that's an interesting notion. That way the camera would only see one color of light--blue. I'll have to try that one out.
GlennChan wrote on 5/13/2005, 12:56 AM
Putting the color temperature blue filter over the lens during white balance just shifts it warmer (which is the same as using an indoor preset, or white balancing on a warm card). It's already been suggested, and won't fix the mixed color temp problem but may make it look less bad.

2- Ok here's a solution that would work but takes a little extra time during shooting:

Edit around your problem. Cut between different shots so that each shot stays in one room. When you switch rooms, white balance to that room's color temperature. A room with windows in them will still have mixed color temperature, but that would be fine because it'd be the same in real life (and often the light from the window may be aesthetically pleasing when it's orange-ish or blue-ish or another color, depending on time of day and pollution).

Watch continuity
If two shots are too similar (similar zoom, subject moves), it's a jump cut. Generally if you zoom in/out 3:1 then you are fine. (Assuming the cut is an edit).
Maintain screen direction- talent walks from left to right, in the next shot they should continue to move from left to right, or they should not appear.

Cutaways and detail shots can help you.
Cross dissolves mean you are movie in time/location.
You can watch TV and steal ideas.
slacy wrote on 5/14/2005, 11:04 AM
Thanks for the thoughts, Glenn. They're good ones. The problem with this shoot was that the manager was moving so fast, and talking so fast, moving back and forth between the different lighting conditions, there was no real chance to stop the camera and make the appropriate white balance changes. Perhaps, as someone suggested, there is a different way to handle this with the VX2000. Time to crack out the old manual, I guess.
Liam_Vegas wrote on 5/14/2005, 11:19 AM
You can definitely leave the VX2000 on auto white balance even if you are in "manual" mode.