...it doesn't get much much easier, faster or more accurate than THAT!

You're kidding, right? Sounds pretty convoluted. Just put your camera tracks on the timeline and match up the audio peaks. Boom, you're done.

If you are using continuous, non-split footage, ok. But if you are using various clips and subclips from a variety of cameras, it could get ugly. In such a case Vic's solution would provide precision.

And speaking about precision.. What if the audio from one cam doesn't exactly match the other? We know from the speed of soundwaves that if the mic is about 36 feet from the sound source, the audio will differ by one frame. So let's say you have an external mic on one cam (for the real audio) and your second cam is using the on-camera mic. Now say the second cam is about 36 feet away from the sound source. Line up the peaks and you'll be off a full frame. Cut this down to 18 feet and you're off by half a frame.

...If you are using continuous, non-split footage, ok..."

That's what I'm doing. Works like a charm. In the other situations you mentioned, maybe it wouldn't.

It'll work regardless. The TC generator in the camera(s) continue to run even if you switch the camera(s) off!
This is quite an old trick. You can do it on the PD170 also or any camera that's recording in DVCAM.
That it works with HDV is good news indeed, should work with any HDV camera that support Free Run Timecode.

It will NOT work with DV cameras or DVCAM cameras recording in DV as far as I know.

Bob.

Well, that's a nice trick - syncing the cams by remote. We shoot 3 Z1Us and have the remote option turned off (so other IR sources don't suddenly operate the cams). Maybe it's just that we somehow pick IR-full environments (like the public with their own IR-operated remote cams at the same location).

But let's say we do turn to this trick. Every 20 minutes we'll be obliged to re-sync. Our cams don't have identical crystals. Sigh.

If we can assign a button to Remote On/Off and another to Start Time Code so we can sync/resync, that would be good, while not risking getting WTF's from stray IR. I'm also wondering if re-starting time code will erase the shot transition settings (as does shutting off the Z1Us). We depend heavily on shot transition stability for repeatability.

As for our current sound syncing during edits, and because we have mostly (and lots of) out of sequence short shots, we rough-line up shots by sound guide track (each cam's mic always on) then drop in the "real" sound track, delete the cam sound tracks, and look for "punctuations" in the visuals to line up with the "punctuations" in the real sound track. This proves to be very fast and *never* do we trust the floats-out-of-sync TC camera-to-camera.

If a camera is truly far away from a sound source, we might slip still a few extra frames of delay on that video event to reinforce the effect. Hey, we're slip-sliding away anyway, right?

But this concept of mutual sync by doing the very thing we were afraid of (one remote operating the "wrong" camera) is, by itself, a slap on the forehead. Duh, turn lemons into lemonaide. We're gonna use that every now and then, for sure. Thanks.

Free run T/C should just keep running and for days, even if you take the battery off (assuming the backup clock battery in the camera is good).

By using the one remote to reset the T/C generators all the cameras will set to the exact same T/C, within a frame. Then you can disable the IR remote. They should certainly be accurate for hours if not days. If you're loosing sync after 20 minutes something is wrong.

It'll work regardless.

Bob, I think he was referring to when the technique of synching to audio peaks (not timecode) will or won't work.

I haven't tried this using the (far more precise) timecode method. If you are using different cams with free run timecode, how hard is it to get them started without a common remote? Like, can you sync the pd170 and the Z1 by simply holding the cameras next to each other and pushing a button? If this is not precise enough, does Sony use a common signal from their remotes that works for all of their cams (not just HDV cams)?

Can't promise anything but the remotes are pretty common across the Sony lineup.
It's only a menu selection, not some complex command you have to send to the camera. It's hard to push two buttons at excatly the same moment, that's why the idea of using one remote. Even so, getting to within a few frames and then manually fiddling is way better than starting out blind, if you've got lots of clips. I had this problem recently one cam running the whole show and a B cam shooting pickups of about 20 clips. Syncing took a long time as there were no visual or audio cues.

Bob.

Jayster -

Well I pulled my PD170 and gave it a test. Here's what I came up with.
First you can use "Preset" and "FreeRun" on the 170, but you have to set it to DVCAM mode. I don't think DV supports camera time code.

Next, no the 170 will NOT respond to the Z1 remote.
But I DID work out a way for you to get functionally the same result with your PD170 and I imagine a host of other cameras.

1 - set your TC to "FreeRun" and "Preset".
Let's take a second to understand these two settings.
Preset vs Regenerate - Preset is a timecode that YOU set, be it 1:00:00:00 or any other number. If you're shooting a short show, with three cameras, for instance, you "might" preset cam 1 to 1:00:00:00; Cam 2 to 2:00;00:00 and Cam3 to 3:00:00:00. In the "old" days of linear tape editing, it was really useful to be able to load a tape and instantly know which roll it was, by the timecode. With non-linear computer editing, it's a pretty moot point.
Regenerate, on the other hand picks up the last frame that you shot and uses it as the first frame of the next scene.
Free Run vs Rec Run
Rec Run gives you a contiguous time code when used with Regenerate. The time code only moves when the camera is recording.
Now Free Run works off of the INTERNAL CLOCK in the camera. So it's always running. If you sync two cameras using Free Run, they will have the exact same time code on their tapes no matter how many times the cameras are turned on or off.

So with the PD170's you just have all cameramen stand by their cameras with finger on the reset button, and say, "ready, set, go" and all press the manual "reset" to preset the counter to zero at the same moment. It won't be frame accurate, but it'll still be close enough to get you in the ballpark. Then you line up your audio hits and you're done.

In answer to DGates, THIS is the reason to sync in this manner. Let's say you're shooting a Rock concert or a school play or court deposition or basketball game with four cameramen. Syncing those four cameras would be brutal, expecially when it comes time to change rolls. Plus one guy might only be doing "B" roll beauty shots, let's say of the crowd. I pity the guy who has to sync two hours of that footage by lining up audio hits.

My way, you just find the clearly marked time code and line them up.
Your time line might look like a grid with lots of pieces missing, but EVERY camera will be in dead sync, and you could do the above job in 10 to 15 minutes.

For you, it's obviously not necessary. I imagine you're syncing two or three cameras, shooting all under an hour, and have the opportunity to have everyone start and end at more or less the same time. If it works, I don't knock it, fer sure. There are many solutions to filmic problems and in the end, the cheapest, fastest and easiest solution is always the one to turn to.

v

Thanks Vic for this handy info!

We white balance at the same time and on the same card and now we will add
this to the routine.