Well the local shop wants $130 buck to upgrade the computer they built for me, from 2G to 4G (free installation). that seems high -

Yes, but ... are you buying 2g or 4g?? If your existing motherboard memory sockets are already *full* then you have to remove existing memory chips to add more. For instance if you have 4 sockets and they each have 512 meg (2g) then you'll need to either remove them all and add two 2g or four 1g chips.

Also ... prices for RAM depend a *lot* on the type of RAM. Some older chips are much more expensive than current models.

Hey vic, I'd download PC Wizard and let it tell you what kind of MOBO and RAM you're running and if you have open slots, etc...

post the info here, and then we can point you in the right direction.

doing it yourself is a good idea IMO because then you know how to do it again in the future, and the potential money saved adds up over a couple of upgrades.

the only thing to keep in mind when adding ram is that you usually have to push uncomfortably hard ( at least for me ) to get it to snap into place, but as long as you only push down, and not at some angle, it shouldn't ever be a problem.

Dave

Yo Doctor (Frigid) -

Here's my MRI -

<<< System Summary >>>
> Mainboard : Gigabyte P35-DQ6
> Chipset : Intel P31/P35
> Processor : Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 @ 2400 MHz
> Physical Memory : 2048 MB (2 x 1024 DDR2-SDRAM )
> Video Card : NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GS
> Hard Disk : SAMSUNG (250 GB)
> Hard Disk : GRAID (1000 GB)
> Hard Disk : Disk (500 GB)
> Hard Disk : ST310005 (1000 GB)
> Hard Disk : WDC (1500 GB)
> DVD-Rom Drive : TSSTcorp CD/DVDW SH-S183L
> Monitor Type : Envision G218a1 - 22 inches
> Monitor Type : 427-S11 - 27 inches
> Network Card : RTL8168/8111 PCIe Gigabit Ethernet Adapter
> Operating System : Microsoft Windows XP Professional 5.01.2600 Service Pack 3
> DirectX : Version 9.0c (December 2007)


Now what?

v

I would go to Crucial.com and let their system scanner check out your system. I buy from them all the time.

Alright, so you should buy DDR2 memory, and you have 4 slots, so you could get 2x2GB sticks DDR2 800 or 1066 RAM ( you can see what clock speed your existing ram is by looking at the memory section of the PC Wizard software ).

Then, I'm not sure how your memory slots are worked, but it could be that if you want them to work with the dual channel you have to have matched sticks in matched colors. (This means that the two new sticks would go in the yellow or orange slots for example as seen in this image of your MOBO)



Dave

Vic,

Since your Mobo Gigabyte P35-DQ6 has 4 Dimm slots for the memory modules (4x 240pin DDR2-1066/800/667), you could get another 2 - 1Gig sticks DDR2 memory and fill up the remaining slots with this. You may want to open the case and look to see which modules are installed now to see what speed they are currenly running on so you can get the same speed & type which should work well.
Newegg should have DDR2 mem modules for approx $30 per gig

Good luck!

Ted

Do not go for an upgrade to 4 GB - it is too low with your processor. Go for at least some additional 2 x 2 GB giving 6 GB.
If you have not tried to buy and change RAM before then pay the 130 $ - this is much cheaper on the long run considering the risk to get some wrong sticks - that nobody will change for you - and RAM comes in many different lengths, forms etc etc.

AND: RAM-sticks are VERY VERY sensitive to static electricity.
If your local PC shop does the change they know all this and take the risk for all above.

Wrong installation can give an unstable machine - as we read about in this forum every now and then :-(( - and the PC-shop will run some intensive memory tests after the change to ensure that everything is OK.

Video editing and rendering is quite tough to the memory, so please be careful.

One of the simplest ways to check what memory you have/need is to go to http://www.crucial.com and run their scan tool. It will tell you what motherboard you have, how much memory (and in which slots) and what they suggest (and how much) for the additional memory. As others have mentioned, memory sticks are very static sensitive and can sometimes be a real bugger to put in (typically hiding behind cables etc on the motherboard).

mikey

thank you sincerely, one and all -
its always an education, hanging around youse guys.

as per ritsmer, I will pay the extra few bucks and let the shop do the switch - and I'll also go for the 6gig.

will report back on difference that the upgrade makes in thread count, preview RAM and "low memory" issues.

v

btw vic,

if you go over to win7/64 bit, you'll have to do a clean install (if from xp) of all your software. from vista i think there's an upgrade path, but to be honest, a clean install is the way i'd go for stability....

leslie

I said in a previous post: Yes, but ... are you buying 2g or 4g?? If your existing motherboard memory sockets are already *full* then you have to remove existing memory chips to add more. For instance if you have 4 sockets and they each have 512 meg (2g) then you'll need to either remove them all and add two 2g or four 1g chips.

Just for kicks I went to crucial.com and downloaded the memory checker on my (fairly) new computer.

I have 12 gig but it's six slots with 2 gig each (my mobo will take 24 gig) If I want to increase my memory I have to go to 4 gig RAM sticks, but I would need to remove some of the 2 gig sticks to make room. And 4 gig sticks are *more* than twice the price of a pair of 2 gig sticks :-(

I won't be increasing my RAM anytime soon.

For the best performance you should have the same memory in all 4 Dims. I would get a set of 4 matched sticks of 2gb RAM if you have a 64 bit OS, or 4 matched 1gb sticks of RAM if you are using a 32bit OS

If you wantsubstantially better performance you would be well served to replace the stock CPU cooler with a hgh efficiency model and overclocking it to 3.33ghz - easily achieved with that motherboard and your Q6600. You should ask the shop about that improvement also.

I ran my q6600 at that speed for a year or so, but then saw that my temps were high during renders when all 4 cores were working near 100%. I realized that my "high-efficiency cooler" wasn't so hot after all (ah, too hot, I guess I should say). It seems that a very thin layer of dust had accumulated on the fins that compressed air couldn't fix. So I backed it down to 2.4 gHz.

It doesn't hamper my workflow much to render slowly when the tradeoff is that I can work on other projects in the meantime while waiting for a render to finish, including opening other instances of Vegas. I regularly do this except when rendering the rare crash-prone .VEG in a 32-bit version of Vegas - then I take no chances.

Moreover, I decided I'd keep this CPU for quite awhile. But I might not be able to use the chip for as long as I might want if I were to overclock too much - something about migration of the atoms, etc.: chips simply last longer when not pushed too hard. And I now never need to worry about overheating. So I no longer am so willing to recommend overclocking.

Well the local shop wants $130 buck to upgrade the computer they built for me, from 2G to 4G (free installation).

So you have a Gigabyte P35-DQ6.

Not sure if you have Rev.1.0 or 1.1 or which BIOS you are running, but if you want to be on the safe side I would recommend removing the ram and looking at it. Call the manufacturer or use their website to find out exactly which ram it is (serial number or model number), then do a search to match it for the lowest price and install the other two sticks yourself. The reason for that is that even if the name of the ram sounds the same, the chipset might be different as well as the timing.

The other option is to remove the two 1GB sticks and install two 2GB sticks. The ones I would recommend are these since they are extremely compatible and reliable. The motherboard will NOT support DDR3, only DDR2 (the pinouts are different for each). The price of memory is much higher now than it was a year or more ago, especially the price of DDR2. Put them in the same slots the old ones came out of (probably the Orange slots).

Run Memtest86 to make sure they are running stable.

Another utility that will tell you a lot about what you are running is CPU-Z.

Both are free.

I would also ask the local shop what they plan to do. Are they matching the two sticks of ram with two more that are EXACTLY the same or are they removing them and installing two 2GB sticks? If they are doing the latter, they aren't really overcharging you as you can see from the increased cost of the ram.

John

LReavis - what cooler were you using? I haven't seen my temps go up for the r2 years it's been overclocke, but I keep the inside pretty clean too. A peltier type cooler will definitely keep it cool - another option would be to slow it down to 3.0Ghz - that would drop the temps quite a bit and still give more than 20% speed increase.

Just to summarize what others have said for you Vic (and add some of my own):

(1) The "rule of thumb" is that a properly configured computer for HD video editing and rendering should have 2GB of RAM for each CPU. Therefore a Quad Core should have 8GB of memory to run efficiently. This is because when Vegas starts spawning threads, each CPU is going to want memory to process your HD frames and if there isn't enough memory to go around, it becomes a bottleneck.

(2) For the RAM to run efficiently, they should be running in Dual Channel mode and this requires "match sticks"! Not only does it mean the sticks must be the same make / model, but you really should buy them in "match pairs" from the manufacturer where they match them based on their timing tests.

Since you have 4 slots in your motherboard, what I would do is buy 2 match pairs of 4GB (i.e., 2 x 2GB + 2 x 2GB). This will bring your 4 cpu PC up to 8GB of RAM (2GB per CPU) all running in dual channel mode. Then install Windows 7 64-bit. BTW, this is how I have my Quad Core configured and it runs great.

~jr

"LReavis - what cooler were you using?"

Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro. It made a big improvement over the stock Intel cooler when I first installed it. I have the computer on a shelf in what was once a walk-in closet, and therefore somewhat protected from household dust (it's in our home). Or maybe it's a slight film of deposits from cooking and not dust?

LReavis, I'm using a Thermalright 120 and haven't had any problems with temps. If the room / closet the computer is in is warm it will make a big difference in temperatures too. A computer in an enclosed area will raise the temperature quite a bit on it's own running.

Boy, I've got to take exception to a few things recommended by posters:

First, you do not need identically matched RAM in ALL four sockets. What you need is matched PAIRS. Both parts in Channel A should be the same speed and size, and both parts in Channel B should be the same speed and size. ALL four parts should be the same speed, but not necessarily the same size.

Example: If one pair of RAM is 667 MHz and the other pair is 800 MHz, your computer will run at the lower speed. It is IMPERATIVE to LOOK INSIDE your machine and find out what your older RAM is so you can make a decision to replace it or to match it. You would be wasting money to buy 1066 MHz parts if you don't replace the 667 MHz parts at the same time.

It is very likely that your present parts are not 1066 MHz. and you'll need to decide what speed to buy.. Most name-brand machines are build with the cheapest RAM, so it is almost always best to throw out your old RAM when upgrading.

Keep in mind that:
- 800 MHz is 20% faster than 667 MHz.
- 1066 MHz is 33% faster than 800 MHz
- 1066 MHz is 100% faster than 667 MHz

Thus, moving from 667 to 800 is a huge speed increase by itself without even increasing RAM size. Also know that the nitty-gritty technical details of RAM "timings" hugely affects the gross numbers above. Better RAM has better timings and costs more. But don't waste your money on "gaming" RAM.

So, I just told you that you only need matched pairs, but then said all four RAM sticks should be the same speed. Did I contradict myself?

No, because each pair can be a different capacity. Example: One pair of 1 GB parts, and one pair of 2 GB parts = 6 GB total.

Should all four RAM sticks be the same size to match the CPU cores? NO. RAM slots are not matched to CPU cores. RAM is accessed by the RAM controller.

Hence, if your 1 GB parts are 667 MHz, then junk them and buy a single pair of 800 or 1066 MHz 2 GB parts for 4 GB total. I disagree that 4 GB is flatly inadequate. 4 GB is very adequate for most things. IT MIGHT be inadequate for multi-track, multi-effect editing; but is not inadequate on its face. And besides, you can always expand up to 8 GB later--another argument to buy two 2GB RAM sticks.

Should you have 2 GB per CPU core? I don't know where that rule of thumb came from--perhaps from good experience, but once again, it depends on your particular application. I'd like to see evidence of when Vegas uses 4, 8, or 16 GB or RAM and how spending that kind of money produces a good ROI.

RAM *is* static sensitive. However, I have never seen a RAM part damaged with reasonable handling: (1) Plug the machine in (turned off) so that the chassis ground is connected to the earth ground (assuming your building ground is good); (2) Discharge your body by touching the metal computer chassis; (3) Open the latches on the slots you will be using; (4) Take the RAM out of it's packaging and insert it into the computer (it only goes one way due to a slot in the leaded edge); (5) CAREFULLY push the RAM into the slot until the latches engage and manually check the latches are closed.

Try to maintain frequent contact with the computer chassis (ground) and don't move around or wear your wool sweater to generate static.

If this is too complex, go to a computer store, but I will warn you that many stores are incompetent in ensuring pairs are matched, and the speed of all parts is matched.

Boy, I've got to take exception to a few things recommended by posters:

As I also have on one of my builds, however I posted after doing an hour of research for Vic. You do in fact need matched pairs for THAT motherboard according to quite a lot of posters who ran into major problems because they didn't. Of course, it was in the context of the questions and other suggestions I posted as well.

John

John,

Are you speaking of matched speed, timings, capacity, or a combination, or all three?

Certainly a complete answer would take pages to explain, but unless your board has an issue (can anyone provide a link to issues with the MB above) slight differences in timings is rarely a problem.

Matching speed is only important in that the RAM controller will use the speed of the slowest RAM parts, thus wasting dollars spent on faster RAM if slower parts are left in the system.

I have yet to see an Intel chipset (this board is an Intel X58 design) that does not allow mixing PAIRS of RAM having different capacity.

As this is an Intel X58 chipset board, any specific problems with this board would likely be with the BIOS. It would make sense to upgrade to the latest BIOS and check the release notes for possible known issues.

This is one reason I stick to Intel hardware. There have been a lot of problems with other motherboards trying to tweak their designs and BIOS to win gamer awards and benchmark speed tests. I can guarantee you that such tweaks always risk problems.

In general then:

(1) Always match RAM stick speeds (do not reuse slow parts as they will slow down new parts)
(2) Always install RAM in pairs (with Intel memory architecture)
(3) Attempt to match RAM pairs with the same manufacturer and product line
(4) Always match the capacity of pairs of RAM, but mixed capacity pairs should not be a problem
(5) Always match the timings of pairs of RAM, but slightly different timings between pairs should not be a problem
(6) Update your BIOS
(7) Educate yourself on any specific issues with your hardware and act accordingly

John,
-----
When I decide to help someone I do a bunch of research. As I said, I spent an hour. Much of the complaints about the board being finicky with it's ram came from the Tweaktown forums and the user comments on Newegg. Some of them even said that they had a problem with some of the recommended ram on the Gigabyte website for that specific board. It happens. A big long technical explanation as to why would more effort than Gigabyte put into figuring out according to the posters who tried to contact them about the probelms with that board and it's ram. Enough people experienced a "finicky with ram" problem to pass it along as a "practical matter".

Since he was considering having the ram replaced by a local shop, getting into all the things you described seemed unhelpful to Vic. Vic just wanted to know if the local shop was potentially overcharging him. So I told him to ask if they were replacing ALL the ram or adding to the existing ones and also suggested what seemed like two options that would work for him without having to potentially "tweak" the BIOS if he ran into a problem thus sending him straight to the local shop anyway where it would cost him even more money to "undo" what may have happened.
I told him to either match the other two exactly or replace the two 1 GB sticks with two 2 GB sticks that I know will be reliable with that board. If I started with him about ram timings, chipsets, etc I would be talking to someone who would NEVER consider taking a computer to a local shop to replace ram - right? You aren't explaining anything to me that I don't already know. If you or I ran into a problem, we would figure out how to make it work on our own. Vic would obviously have a problem doing that. I felt that minimizing the potential risk to practically zero is what Vic is looking for if he does it on his own and weighs that against whatever it is the local shop is proposing to do for him.
Your responses while well intentioned just don't seem helpful to Vic who was pretty clear about what specific kind of practical help he was looking for.

John