The DVX users were equally annoyed when the 100A models came out. But at the end of the day in both cases it's a pretty silly way to view things. Both the DVX100 and the XL1 were considered great cameras by their users, just cause a new model comes out doesn't stop the previous one from taking images of the same quality as it always did.
Look at it this way, if you think the new model is THAT much better than the old model then it must have been a pretty bad choice.
As to the XL2, I just hope they've made the thing more reliable than the last one.

oh .. farss. .what was unreliable about the XL1s? I'm interested . . there maybe a load of 2nd hand XL1s on the maket soon ...

Grazie

well, the good news is that majority of the more expensive part are compatible; lenses, etc. I read on DVINFO.NET that Canon said that will be the last product of it's kind without the ability to do HDV so although I am very excited about the new XL2, I think I actually don't mind waiting for the next version.....unless of course I can find where my wife hid my credit card :-)

Grazie,
think you had sort of the same issue with your Cannon when you were looking for a VCR. Guide alignment seems to be the issue. Several times in my brief career I've had to help out guys with XL1s who've shot something on a XL1 and it wouldn't play in a VCR. We end up trying our range of Sony machines, oftenly we'll find one that'll have enough tolerance in the servos to track the tape. If not, it's off to a DSR 2000 or else a DVC Pro deck.
I've never found anyone whose had these problems with a Sony or Panasonic camera and I've yet to speak with anyone who owns a XL1 that hasn't had this problem.
That said they do take great pictures!

And the one time I've been handed an XL1 to shoot something with, damn thing wouldn't thread the tape, ended up shooting all day on my much abused D8 camera which has never missed a beat.
My feeling is most of the guys who own XL1s, you'd have to pry the thing from their cold, dying hand before they'd give it up and at the same time they regularly threaten to throw the thing over the nearest cliff.
Personally I can think of a few cameras I'd buy before an XL1, DVC 30E being one, for the price it's a mighty fine looking camera. The XL2 just looks like Cannon trying to play catchup to the DVX100, I was expecting a HDV camera from them by now. They're the ones to take the world by storm, they don't have a pro camera division that they have to avoid undercutting and yet it still hasn't happened. Looks like it's going to be upto Sony.

Bob.

Im not sure about this.. But I think you may be able to Plugin 6 Mics... 2 Using the MA300 ...2 XLR Phantom Powered on the side.... Another 12Bit at the rear....Also the Improvements to Lenses and the Ability to Use the Mini 35 Adapter... SHAME they cant bring the Price down on this.. Perhaps even add it on as a Higher model...THAT Would then get me cash. Because it would then have so Many Film making tools... I would Sadly Overlook the HDV.. One thing I would like to know... Does it have An Anamorphic mode so that you could simulate a true Cinema Aspect Ratio... If this is the case I may be way of here But the extra resolution w/s Chip Combined with an Anamorhic setting would this give you Equivelent oR BETTER Resolution than Using a HDV Cam withut a Widescreen Chip Or Anamorphic...At the end of the Day the only reason HDV IS Important too me at least.. is the Fact I know then what Im doing has the remote Possibility that if it was good enough.. Could be Put on Film...

Several times in my brief career I've had to help out guys with XL1s who've shot something on a XL1 and it wouldn't play in a VCR.

Bob, I've owned the XL1 and the XL1s and never experienced this problem. I use the Sony DSR-30 deck and all the tapes play smooth as silk.

Jay

It would seem that the XL2 can shoot real 16:9, well according to the specs it uses more of the CCDs in 16:9, doesn't say if the viewfinder compensates or not. Still having decnt 19:9 is a big plus.
That said if you're shooting progressive you pick up more vertical res which offsets the loss due to using squeeze mode anyway.
You could use the Min 35 adaptor on the XL1 but then again those things COST.
What it doesn't have is a standard broadcast lens mount which ties you into Cannon lenses.
No matter what AR mode it shoots in it is still only 720x480 res, nowhere near HDV, adding anamorphic adaptors also makes no difference to the resolution, you still shooting DV25, in fact in terms of screen res it's actually dropping, you've got the same number of pixels stretched over a wider screen.

Ray, I sold my XL1 on eBay when the XL1s came out. You may want to give that a try.

Jay

Jay,
and so they should. Problem seems to be it's very easy for them to get out of alignment or maybe it's just the local service guys who think so long as the tape plays back OK in the camera all is well.
Obviously everyone treats their gear differently and service centres vary worldwide.
All I can say is despite years of abuse our PD150s give close to zero problems, clients who own them have few problems with them either but I've just run into too many guys with XL1 alignment issues. Despite that they wouldn't swap them for anything else, they seem a rather rabid bunch, bit like Vegas users.

Bob.

Bob Yes it says the Viewfinder shows the Picture as Widescreen..

Actually I think using the Mini 35 Adapter means you could use any lense? Prime Lenses even....

Surely the Idea of Using anomorphic Mode (I had hoped this may have been built into the Camera)Is to Not lose the third of the Picture With Black Bars... And use the Widescreen Mode On the TV TO make the Picture Normal...

I agree with the cost issue if the Mini35 was cheaper..... I would splash with the Cash....

Obviously everyone treats their gear differently. . .

Bob, you're absolutely right! Coming from a motion picture background, using the Arriflex 16-BL most of the time, my first boss was very picky as to how the cameras were to be treated--"with kid gloves," he'd tell us. He also reminded us that anything we'd break, we'd have to pay for it!

Frankly, I don't understand why anyone would not treat their equipment with great care. Our equipment is our bread and butter!

Jay

My assistant's XL1s has been very troublesome for the both of us. Had to get sent in for tape alignment despite the fact it was treate with great care. A videographer friend of mine has had to send his in to Canon over 4 times already in the 2 years he's owned it.

And the bad news is they aren't available until Spetember. Drat!

Jay

I've been using an XL1 and XL1s for quite awhile and have not had any, ANY, of the aforementioned problems. And yes, cold dead fingers ( least till I get an XL2 ).

Farss ... " Look at it this way, if you think the new model is THAT much better than the old model then it must have been a pretty bad choice. " ... um, what ? What ? Who doesn't want the latest greatest ? I loved Vegas 4 but that didn't mean that I wasn't anxious as hell for 5 !!! And are the improvements in V5 worth having ? Hell yea ! And did I make a bad choice using V4 ? Of course not. I can't imagine you actually believe what ya said. Having 24p, Cine Look ( which rocks ), better 16:9, 20x lens, built in XLR ... duh, of course I want it. None of that demeans the XL1's previous incarnations.

Anyway, will most likely sell both of mine as a package to buy one, than try to scrape together the cha-ching to buy another.

- Ray

www.undergroundplanet.com

My opinion: After seeing HDV why even mess with DV? I am just waiting for someone, maybe even Sharp to come out with an HDV camera and I can't see spending another 5K for digital unless you have to produce now.

JJK

Unless i'm wrong is tehr anything Canon can do that my Pana DVX100 can't (besides of course the interchangable lenses which i wouldn't change anyway as i can't afford it)?

Mutley,
if all those things were that important to you, why didn't you buy the DVX100?
OK, you don't get the 20x zoom but the rest of it has been available for quite some time and in a design that allowed for follow focus units, matte boxes etc. If you're not into 'cinema on DV' then there's not a huge amount on the XL2 that you'll need although the 16x9 feature is important, probably the biggest advance. Down here if it isn't 16x9 its hard to sell.
What might be some cause for angst is from now until the XL2 hits the shelves I'll bet prices for the XL1 fall dramatically if they haven't already, which means the resale value of your XL1 has dropped.

Bob.

Pat, go here and read what all it can do. Then you'll be in a better position to answer your own question.

Jay

well there is the Amounts of Mic Inputs... Also you must be able to Use Autofocus in its Film Modes ...Im Not sure but I dont think the Panny has two Phantom Powered Inputs? I wouldent mind betting the New Lens Is probably awesome...Also it has a true widescreen chip.. Im not sure If the panny has a true widescreen chip but there must be some reason why Century makes an Anamorphic lens for it ? Anyway Im always open to change my mind.. I think possibly wait for the new sony HDV Wish I knew more about it though..

After seeing HDV why even mess with DV?

Because the vast majority of people still do not have HD viewing capabilities. It is not yet the "standard." When it is, then it will be a far different story!

Jay

Jay :) Lets just say I made a Film.. One that was worthy of Selling to the Networks.. But They dont like DV... Expecting the content to be Amatuerish because Of its Low end expectations In the Industry... Now I could get the footage transferred to Betacam Or Hidef ect ...BUT Just think how much better its gonna look sOURCED From HDV.. They would say What Film Production Company made that ! I realise that Personally I may never be this good.. But We all Hope that One day Dreams can come true...Also any Archive material you want to store on your Computer In ten Years from Now that HDV Footage is Gonna be a whole lot Better ..

The reason I ask about HDV Is I have concerns over things like the MPEG2 Compression the lack of Peripheral equipment The lenses and Things like DOP At least with The canon/Panny you could always use the mini35...

I am not sure if I can wait till 2005 Though for HDV That link you gave looks SSsssooooo Tempting ! :)

Lets just say I made a Film.. One that was worthy of Selling to the Networks.. But They dont like DV...

The fact of the matter is, this is not the case. Many networks are shooting many programs on DV. They love it!

BUT Just think how much better its gonna look sOURCED From HDV..

Time has proven that the format has nothing to do with "quality." A well-written, well-produced program is what they're looking for. Whether it's shot on 70mm film or mini-DV, the story is still the thing!

Jay