You need to look at this tape and freeze on those frames so you can see the error (if any). As good faith to the customer, make him/her a new dub on a new tape. It could just have been a fluke when recording to the vhs.
I would say no dropouts are acceptable, especially if you are using a high quality vhs machine for output (which you should be using).

Steve.

To get the best possible VHS copies I use a SVHS machine with S-Video going into it. SVHS machines supposedly write a wider track than standard VHS and even though the S-Video feed is perhaps overkill it all helps.

However also on VHS you'll always see some line tearing at the bottom of the frame, I think this is where the heads swicth. You need to find out if this is a repeatable problem on the tape and possibly to what extent the problem may lie in his gear.

Using an S-VHS machine with S-Video to make regular VHS dubs is a good idea and isn't overkill by any means. S-VHS machines don't write a wider track, however, industrial VHS duplication machines that are optimized for SP mode only recording, do record a wider track. They also have higher quality electronics than consumer machines.

You are also correct about the "grunge" in the bottom 3 or 4 lines of the image, it is head switching noise and it's the nature of the VHS beast. They all do it, but it is outside the normal viewing area on a regular TV.

James

That's right; perhaps the problem is with HIS monitor (not enough overscan). On the other hand, if other tapes he has don't show the same problem, then you might want to record with a different VCR.

SOme intersting replies to ponder over. Iam sure it is not the head switching.
He has given an exact location of the 1-2 frames where this is a line missing.

I still think that given the nature of VHS there will always bee some dropout and depending on your machine, how well it deals with it. Infact if you read some of the informaion on the tape manafacturing sites it mentions low drop-out tape.

I used S-VHS machine feed from V4.

I dont mind replacing a tape as good faith, but this customer has been very tedious about the whole process ( it was wedding)

Also, on some occasions you run across clients that will never be happy no matter what you do. It's just the price of doing business. The work is fun, but dealing with the public sucks.

If it's a wedding and he wants a good result that he can view for years to come why doe she want it on VHS anyway. As the output media is only a small part of th overall costs to you regardless of whether he wants it or not I'd be giving him a DVD of the occassion as well.

Most of the stuff I output to VHS I'm now keeping a copy of on SVHS. It's not the worlds best format but cost per hour of video is very low and it means if in a few months the client asks for more copies I'm not having to dub from their VHS copy.

Cheemie - Another good piece of advice is to have the client sit with you and "see" sample footage of what you have produced on your setup. Then if there is any doubt in the "quality" then maybe the client will review their own setup. It was seen by them on your setup . . if then it is "unnacceptable" with their setup then they must look to thier on technology . . not yours! But yes, all the advice given above is neat. Clients who want the "best" for a platform that may not be set correctly is not, I'm afraid to say, your problem. You are a professional. When we deal with clients that haven't the appropriate equipment or that that equipment has not been setup to give "optimum" perfomance is another matter indeed.

Maybe if there is an opportunity to educate the client into setting the equipment in the way that will give then what they want COULD be an option. Cheemie, you are a professional. You've become a Master of our Institute - don't forget that - yeah? Ho, the other thing is to contact our Institute and obtain direct advice from them - yeah? They have always been helpful to me and this type of issue may be just the thing that they will assist you AND your client to get what each one wants .. . . Managing Expectations is very hard, but once mastered, makes for better relationships.

. . only my 2ps worth . .

Best regards,

Grazie

Clients expectations, now there's a talking point.
I work part time in a business that hires video gear, yish, what some clients expect of you.

I think the classic is the 'I dropped your camera and the heap of junk doesn't work anymore so my shoot was stuffed up and I want my money back and you to pay the cost of shooiting it again' mentality

Here I am again....
Grazie, I did sent a tape out orginally, so he has seen my work on VHS, using the same equipment that I am still using. I never try and take a booking without the client seeing my work as I have been there before, the other to avoid (and I failed on this one) is to avoid peole who haggle as they will want to pay the price for the MINI but afterwards want the Rolls Royce and expect it.

Regarding why I use VHS, its what some clients want and it is the cheaper option on the list, he can have DVD if he requires no problem, it involves extra time making menus rendering etc. I master all my weddings on DV tape and never use VHS or S-VHS as a master any more.

I don't know what type of VTR you are using, but if you have the following check the settings:

TBC should be ON
Digital correction such as Digital R3 should be OFF
Tape Dub mode should be ON
Any Video Calibration compensation or the like should be OFF.

In other words, everything OFF except Tape Dub mode and TBC.

John

There are several considerations to deal with here.

Is the dropout happening on playback only, or is it part of the image outputted to the tape. This is important. If it happens on playback only, and is not happening in the same place (freeze frame and frame advance should reveal which) then the customer's playback machine may very well be at fault. If it occurs in the same place, but another copy of the tape does not, it could be a case of a tape defect. This calls for a replacement tape.

If it's traceable to the original video outputted to tape then you have to make sure that your original transfer into VV did not have it. You provided no details on the chain or procedures employed. So it would be pointless to speculate on the source of the dropout.

As an aside, most of the "professional" video players employ DOC (Drop Out Compensator) circuits which monitor the video and when they detect a dropout substitute the previous line of video for the defective line. For single line dropouts this is very effective. The fun starts if you havw a serious tape problem where a dropout is detected over several consecutive lines of video. What you get in that case is a wide band of repeating one line video, not a pretty sight.

To summarize, if the dropout has been recorded to the final tape, then it's your responsibility to correct it. If it's occuring on playback on a customer's player, then it's beyond your control. And don't forget, that with repeated passes and tape wear, including but not limited to customer pausing and freeze framing or other SPFX on playback, the tape will eventually develop problems many of them more severe than just the occasional dropout. That certainly isn't your responsibility. All you can do is provide the customer with a quality video, recorded on quality stock. The rest is the nature of the beast, and you certainly cannot be held accountable for it.

There should be no dropouts as long as there is no droput on the master tape. I did VHS Duplication for about 5 years and dropouts come from a combination of many things, the first one being cheap tape. We sampled many diffrent brands and found that a lot of them can cause dropouts. Now we stick with Fuji tape loaded in JVC shells. The second thing that comes in to play is the Deck you use to make the dubs. This is another part you don't want to skimp on, you shouldn't use consumer decks for this if you want the best results. You can get a nice Pro deck for $300-$500, or rent one if needed. I would stick with JVC for those as well, or Panasonic's are also good. SVHS won't make any diffrence if you are recording standard VHS like one Person said. And Finally you need to have a good TBC, this will eliminate most of the rest of your problems, the ones we used were like $2000, but I'm sure there are other ones out there that are just as good. IF you don't want to make the investement in all this equipment, there is probably a local duplication house that you can use to get a good quality VHS dub.
I'd first check the master to make sure there aren't any little droputs in there, if there is even a small little dropout, it will be greatly magnified when you go to VHS, even with a good TBC. If you don't see any dropouts on the master, then you should be able to make a clean VHS dub from it with no dropouts, we do millions of them every year.