OT: VX2100 vs HD cam

Jeff Waters wrote on 10/10/2006, 3:59 PM

Hi Gang,
Been awhile since I've posted here. Appreciate all the help in the past. I'm to a point where I would like to upgrade my cameras for a 2 camera shoot of fitness videos. Actually, I plan to keep my Sony TRV-950 and am looking for a better camera to pair it with. Had my heart set on a vx2100 until this latest HD craze came along. There seems to be just enough cost difference, though, to keep me looking at the vx2100.

I am not delivering any of these DVD's in hi-def. Don't plan to edit them as such. And will still use the 4:3 dimensions rather than widescreen. Given that the vx2100 is SD like the 950, should I stick with that until I'm ready to jump into HD with both cams (so the 2 cam cutaways look similar)?

Any thoughts at all on this topic are MUCH appreciated.

Thanks,
Jeff

Comments

farss wrote on 10/10/2006, 4:41 PM

If you want to stick with 4:3 and you're possibly doing a lot of camera movement / have moving subjects and need to intercut with a SD camera the 2100 or better still the PD170 mightn't be a bad choice. They can be had very cheaply and there's plenty being sold on the second hand market as well. Also you probably haven't got a huge amount of light on your subject either.

One thing I've noticed with the HDV cameras, they seem not only to have lower light capabilities than their SD counterparts but also (probably because of the glass) when you're out as wide as they'll go with the iris wide open they get quite soft. Adding a WA adaptor into the mix doesn't help either.

Then again it could just be me, kind of interested to hear if others are finding this as well. No I didn't have enough time to futz around with the camera, BAD Bob!

Bob.

Jeff Waters wrote on 10/10/2006, 5:09 PM

Thanks Bob! Helpful. Good point on the second hand market. I did some looking on ebay and other places expecting to find a flood of used vx2100's from people who've upgraded to HD. So far, haven't really found that. Any thoughts on the best place to pick up a used PD-170 or 2100 at a good price? You can buy a new vx2100 for about $2200... so I'd only consider buying a used one for around 1200.

Jeff

Serena wrote on 10/10/2006, 7:58 PM

>>>probably because of the glass

Bob, what futzing would be useful? If a film camera that's exactly what a 'cheap' lens will do and of course the reason for the rule-of-thumb "best one or two stops up from full open". In an electro-optic zoom (as compared to the more expensive mechanically coupled zoom) there might be problems with the control mechanism, but I think you're commenting on purely aperture related issues. But it could be that the lens is soft at minimum focal length through poor correction or poor alignment. Back focus? In all of these I don't believe there is any menu setting adjustment available.

teaktart wrote on 10/10/2006, 8:14 PM

Why not consider the Sony A1U for $2000 or about the same price range as your 2100 or PD 170 ? You can have the best of both formats....
Shoot in SD when you need to match a multi cam shoot and move into the HDV realm when you want with the same tape, external mic, and its smaller than you would expect (close to your 950s)...

Come on over to the HDV world any time you are ready!

Teaktart

farss wrote on 10/10/2006, 8:41 PM

I think you're right.
I was shooting with the A1, with the Sony WA adaptor, and even then it was a struggle to get everything in the shot. Don't know what the iris was at but it would have been at least close to fully open.
I had set the thing in the menu to tell the camera that it had the WA adaptor on (don't quite know what this does). Given that I was working in a tight space with 10 talent, an audio guy and his kit (LOVE'd his Bose speakers), my audio kit, lighting etc and the talent and their leader had no real experience in front of a camera (yes ladies it does take time and no I didn't mean to snap the clapper on your nose!).

The shots without the WA looks much better. Plus the other issue is the histograms on the A1 seem somewhat out of whack. Looking at the video with the scopes in Vegas there's a huge difference, so it could well be that I was also being beaten by the CMOS sensor blooming from too much light.

Stuff we shot the week before with the A1 (minus WA adaptor) that I deliberately set the camera to shoot at -1EV looks way better and there was less light. But the lens was at full wide any of the time. Strange. Mind you I've seen some horrid footage from the Z1s and the A1 and I've seen some stuff that you'd at least swear came out of a $50K broadcast camera. So they're certainly capable, just what the limits are and how far you can push the envelope is what I'm yet to learn.

Konrad wrote on 10/11/2006, 12:18 AM

You would think that used VX2100 and PD170s could be had for cheap but unless you stumble on a steal the average price is right up there. Just do an advanced search on completed eBay auctions to see.

There is a f-stop chart for the A1U that you can find through google. If the Histogram is off it's possible the cam is out of calibration may be worth sending it in for a free warranty checkup.

I picked up a A1U new on sale at B&H last month for $1,800 after rebate. I've only used it on one shoot in LA area and hired a shooter with major credits on their resume and Z1 experience. Just finished capturing the 6.5 hours of tape. I'm very happy with the way the A1U performed. Difficult shoots like a face into direct strong sunshine with the bill of a baseball cap casting dark shadow across the face did not have blown highlights and all the details in the shadow looked great. Everything was shot using manual settings and we were using the 100% ire zebra stripes.

There are many posts that down converted HDV produces great looking SD and so far that is my experience. Even though all I'm doing is down converting to SD I'm ready for HD and the good SD cams are not a bargain.

je@on wrote on 10/11/2006, 9:44 AM

To dovetail on Konrad's experience, I've bumped A1U HDV shots to HDCAM and they look FABULOUS! Whites held up as did detail in the shadows. Much better than I thought they would be and WAY better than shown in the A1U's viewfinder. And most certainly acceptible for intercutting with full up HD. I had low expectations and was pleasantly surprised.