OT: What semi pro camera shuld I buy

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srode wrote on 4/29/2009, 7:23 PM
vegas pro 8 tops out at 16 Mbps for AVCHD - 9 may go higher though - but you'll have to wait till the 16th to find out.
op3studios wrote on 4/29/2009, 7:46 PM
I live in Alaska and the cold can be a real problem. After working outside in the cold, condensation is a real problem once you go inside. Wrapping gear in a garbage bag helps this but you still have to wait for the gear to warm up to avoid moisture caused by condensation.

sounds like you had an exciting kyak trip!
farss wrote on 4/29/2009, 7:47 PM
SD Card "class" is meaningless.
Sandisk recently started labelleing their "Class 4" cards "Class 2".

Suggest you check a camera specific forum for advice on which cards work and which don't. DVInfo might be a good place to start.

Bob.
ingvarai wrote on 4/29/2009, 11:10 PM
>vegas pro 8 tops out at 16 Mbps for AVCHD - 9 may go higher though - but you'll have to wait till the 16th to find out
Huh? Is this confirmed somewhere?

>I live in Alaska and the cold can be a real problem. After working outside in the cold, condensation is a real problem once you go inside.
Same here in Norway I suppose! But this apply to all cameras, not only this specific Panasonic camera. Or..?

>sounds like you had an exciting kyak trip!
It was calm and quiet, until my cam decided to dive :-)

>SD Card "class" is meaningless.
Ok. Sandisk actually has "30 Mbps" written on high end SD cards, which can't be misunderstood.
The reason I am occupied with this is that I read somewhere that the AVCHD compressor will complain and refuse to record when the SD write speed is to low. Just fine. What is not fine, is that, according to the article I saw, the SD card is so in between, it will adjust the quality down to accommodate for lower write speed, without giving a warning. In essence - the camera might record in a lower quality than needed, because I have an SD card that is a little slow.

>Suggest you check a camera specific forum for advice on which cards work and which don't. DVInfo might be a good place to start.
Thanks for the tip!

ingvarai
Aje wrote on 4/29/2009, 11:12 PM
Congratulations to the Pana 151, as for SD cards
go with Transcend they are cheap and reliable.
I have 6 16GB cards (class 6) to feed 3 cams
Pana 151 and 2 Canon HF100 and I have up to now shot 20 hours with all of them - not a single frame lost.
I think its important to format the card IN CAMCORDER before every
important take though.
/Aje
TeetimeNC wrote on 4/30/2009, 4:27 AM
I have the HMC150. You need at least a 4MB/s SDHC card, which is a class 4. There is no in-camera advantage to going to class 6, but you may get faster transfers from card to PC with class 6.

I bought 3 PNY class 4 16GB cards from NewEgg and they have worked perfectly in my cam. One caveat - whenever you insert a previously used card into the cam for a new shoot, be sure to reformat the card. Some users have reported problems when they don't do this.

From Wikipedia:
UlfLaursen wrote on 4/30/2009, 5:19 AM
I have the Pana 151 too, and I use class 6 Sandisc 16GB as recommended by the dealer, but it seems that class 4 is ok too.

/Ulf
farss wrote on 4/30/2009, 6:53 AM
Tests on SDHC cards in the EX cameras show zero difference between Class 6 and Class 4 cards as measured by maximum overcrank fps.
From some manufactures 1 batch of cards card work perfectly upto 42fps and the next batch fail to even format in the camera.
eBay is awash with fake cards. Always buy from a reputable dealer and check the card in the camera by filling them up with video.
Constantly reformatting the cards may shorten their life I think.
The Transcend cards have a good rap although I've had no issues with Sandisk. Hoodman make a "RAW" SDHC card. They're expensive but Hoodman claim they're made to their specs in a plant in the USA. They seem to include a data recovery service in the warranty.
That's about as much as I've sort of learned from using the SDHC cards in the EX1 and reading around 100 of the over 1,000 posts on DVInfo on this topic.

Bob.
ingvarai wrote on 4/30/2009, 10:31 AM
Hi Bob,

here: Panasonic specs
"PH mode:approx. 21 Mbps (VBR, max 24 Mbps)
If class 4 can handle 24 Mbps, fine. If not, I do not understand how a class 6 will not be beneficial. As I believe, the AVCHD compressor si able to slow down a bit (no pun intended) when the storage source cannot keep up with the write speed.

>Hoodman make a "RAW" SDHC card
I wonder what this is.

Constantly reformatting the cards may shorten their life I think
I find it hard to believe this. OTOH, I do not know the physics behind SD cards. And formatting in this case would (or should) probably involve just clearing the file allocation table. Ok - I am out in deep water here, but this is what I think, based on my background as a programmer.

ingvarai
owlsroost wrote on 4/30/2009, 12:13 PM
Flash memory very, very slowly wears out when written.

To extend the life of the memory cells, memory controllers employ 'wear-leveling' techniques to equalize the wear across all the cells in the chip(s).

To be honest, this is only really a significant issue with flash memory which is constantly being re-written e.g. operating system swap files on SSD's, so the controller in these tracks the usage and moves data around to avoid excessive use of the same physical cells.

Tony
richard-amirault wrote on 4/30/2009, 1:26 PM
Flash memory very, very slowly wears out when written.

That is the reason to never buy a portable computer with a solid state HD that is running Windoz. The swap file will eventually kill the drive.

Get one with Linux instead.
DGates wrote on 4/30/2009, 1:52 PM
Ing,

I'd recommend getting Neo Scene for your Vegas editing. Makes HUGE files, but the transcoded clips play back much better in Vegas, at least in my case.
srode wrote on 4/30/2009, 4:32 PM
"Huh? Is this confirmed somewhere?"

Just open Vegas Pro 8 and render a file to AVCHD and you will find that is the upper limit - not much to confirm - it is what it is -- on Vegas 9 we will know sometime after it's release on May 11th what is supports for sure.
ingvarai wrote on 5/1/2009, 1:13 AM
>I'd recommend getting Neo Scene for your Vegas editing. Makes HUGE files, but the transcoded clips play back much better in Vegas, at least in my case

First, the footages I make with my new camera using the best quality settings, play back in real time in Vegas, using the Preview / Best / Auto setting. This is a bit astonishing, since AVCHD shot with my now drowned Canon HF 10 were rather jerky.

Then, I have written my own Vegas add-in similar to GearShift so I use proxy files. I do not use any AVIs or the like, my proxy files are AVC too, but made using a template which enforces a low bit rate. No huge files, no jerkiness, even when applying several FXes.
One day I will publish this add-in , when it has matured enough for others to use.

>Flash memory very, very slowly wears out when written
Thanks Tony, very interesting, I did not know this at all!

ingvarai
DGates wrote on 5/2/2009, 4:47 AM
Sounds like you know your stuff.
Terje wrote on 5/3/2009, 12:35 AM
>> Just open Vegas Pro 8 and render a file to AVCHD and you
>> will find that is the upper limit - not much to confirm

This is correct, but AVCHD is H.264 in an M2T wrapper with AC3 audio. You can render H.264 and AC3 audio at whatever bitrate you want from Vegas, so the limitation isn't really there as such, it is only the max pre-set limit in the Sony H.264 encoder template. If you need to encode at higher bitrate H.264 that is not a problem in Vegas (well, apart from the fact that it might crash on you more than you like).