OT: Wheres the World donations for NO?


mark2929 wrote on 9/12/2005, 9:53 AM
I dont understand how the Truth gets so distorted ?

Why, Why do people always mix facts with Opinions and Hearsay..There is not one piece of evidence to say ANYONE was ever after Iraqi Oil ..NOT ONE.. Only the Conspiracy theories which are UNPROVEN and yet treated as Fact ! Its the same here in the UK ..As for the BBC they have been Guilty of some serious Biased reporting..



Tony Blair seriously cannot be trusted after LYING to Parliament about Iraqs Weapons of Mass destruction ready to go within 45 Minutes.. Regardless of whether the War was right or Wrong he outright LIED.. HE is trying to make sure we join Europe even though the British Public are most Likely against it.. The BBC seem to think they will be the Prime TV station of this new europe and IN my Opinion formed an alliance to making us commit..

We are losing our National Identity and becoming part of a greater whole.. AND Im pretty sure America will be on the Agenda as part of a new WORLD ORDER its Scary stuff ..

i JUST wish People like craftech and everyone would direct their thinking towards the real Unpalatable Facts and see whats really going on.. While we are all being sidestepped by Outrageous Propaganda the real agenda is moving ahead.. With A Single World Leader on the list ..G8 Is an Organisation that was never voted in by the Public OF any COUNTRY... Governments ARE acting with no mandate and FOR themselves.. G8, Has the captains of Industry, the world bank and world leaders all acting INDEPENDENTLY Of its People.. This is a Conflict of interest..Theirs and the people they were elected to serve..

I would like a World where every Country has its own Identity and Culture.. A MULTICULTURAL World.. Where we can all become prosperous and help each other for a diverse world that we can all enjoy ...INSTEAD.. For years the Rich Countries have been helping the elite Citizens and as a by product the citizens of those Countries well it seems that is no longer enough.. They NOW want the WORLD.. And to mix all the Worlds people up. Remove Cultures and societys.. We will be isolated and Powerless and afraid to speak.. ALREADY we are on course to have a euro Police force who will be immune from prosecution and will be able to do whatever they please..

There is So much FOR Good people to uncover THAT is provable and Already underway.. Idle Speculation about Conspiracys and half truths added with truths are just playing into the Hands of those that are making Slaves of us all..Much like the UFO Propaganda of the fifties..

Iraq was a response to Security Council Resolutions and the fear that Sadam would use Nuclear or Chemical Weapons SURELY any one would agree that if he had them he would have used them and without proper supervision he would eventually get them Although we believed he already had them..

IRAN is Making enriched uranium "WHY" do they want Nuclear Power ?when they are swimming in OIL ? So much danger around.. The World NEEDS Clear thought...

New Orleans was a Catstrophe that no one truly believed could happen AND with todays Correctness No one had prepared for rescuers being shot at..I hope many lessons will be learnt about Coping with stuff like this and My thoughts go out to the Devasted lives I just hope that people are Compensated fairly and helped THROUGH this Awfull Dreadfull Time..

I also Hope America accepts Global Warming..and helps in the fight to find alternative fuel... Like fusion reactors perhaps?
filmy wrote on 9/12/2005, 10:20 AM
>>>Tomorrow on CNN Wolf Blitzer will detail what went wrong in a special at 11:00 AM<<<

Yeah - the same person who utters the words "... almost all of them that we see are so poor, and they are so black..." is not someone who I would care to watch anymore.

You know at first I was of the opinon the media was helping, I mean at first the media was out there before most rescue services were. (Someone several days ago questioned how Gerlado could not only get to the dome, but drive in a full network satellite truck when the word was the area was "inaccesable") it was being reported where people were and who needed help. However now I am getting sick and tired of seeing every article, every news cast, almost all the "benefit concerts" participants all going on about New Orleans (The other nights "ReAct Now: Music & Relief" has thus far been the worst for this.) and nothing else. And the whole race issue is now became a *huge* issue and the simple fact is that the city has large afro american population, had they focused on another parish you might have found a large white population in dire need. Right now I feel the whole thing has become the "poor black people of New Orleans relief effort".

People are starting to loose too much perspective on this. At dawns light we were hearing how katrina had missed New Orleans but had desimated other areas in neighboring states and there was much coverage of places like Gulf Port, Mississippi. Suddenly the levee burst in the city of New Orleans and slowly the news drifted to that. And when places like the dome were "shut off" by the flood waters the issue became that area and suddenly it was "... almost all of them that we see are so poor, and they are so black..." and the world gets these blinders on.

If the area between Los Angeles and, say, Irvine,Ca was destroyed I am sure there would be a lot of focus on Hollywood, Burbank and Disneyland. But I mean come on - if all of a sudden everyone focused on say, Compton or South Central...yeh, suddenly Wolf would be saying "... almost all of them that we see are so poor, and they are so black..." about that as well. The whole thing is starting to have reverse effects because now people who were not really anti-govt or racist are suddenly saying "because I am poor, white and do not live in New Oreleans I can not get help? That is B.S!" and naother comment was along the lines of "I evacuated and got out before the storm. I have driven to 5 different relief centers and they can't help me. If I had stayed in the city, gone to the dome, raped and looted and than gone to the Astrodome - I would have already aid now."

I am not a GW lover by any means, but, as a manner of comparison, we all are supposedly people who work in the industry here. Many of use have worked on projects with crews. We had a disccussion not too lang ago about this "test" that was asking about f-stops the like. One of the questions was about a shot being in focus and who had ultimate responsabilty for making sure the shot was in focus. I still maintain it is the person actually operating the camera..the person looking through the lens combined with whoever is pulling foucs. Many maintain it is the D.P, even if they do not opertate the camera. However no one said it was the execuctive producers fault, or the directors fault. So here we have everyone pointing at GW because he is the "exeutive producer", so to speak, of this all. He is the person who can't be fired, he is the person who starts the ball rolling. He is not the director, he is not the DP, he is not the foucs puller. Do I think GW handled this well? I give him credit that at least a day ahead of time he declared the states and areas in harms way diaster areas. He did the right thing with that - however he also delegated responsablity and he went on with his schedule feeling that someone else would be dealing with it. This is what one would expect but in this case it elad to all the coments about "George Bush hates black people"

When it was clearly not only a national tragedy but an international one GW should have stopped his schedule and eased concerns to everyone. But he did not do that - and I already stated in an early post how disgusted I thought those early "speeches" were because he took maybe 60 seconds to say the typical BS about "Help is one the way. Our hearts go out to those affected" and than went one about how we are winning the war in Iraq. I rememember one little GW moment where all the media suddenly breaks in going "The president is going to speak about the Hurricane..." and they cut live to him and he blurts out something in maybe 15 seconds and goes on about welfare reform or whatever it was...it was as if the destruction of huge areas in 4 or so states was minor. I wish I had the VCR rubnning because even the commintators were a bit shocked - they all kid of sat there for a few seconds. My point is though that GW did pre-plan to have aid flowing, it was not his fault that it was *not* flowing. It *was* his fault that the entire world was once again looking to him for some sort of assuarance and he treated it, at first, as no big deal. A few scripted words here and there..but nothing more. I undertand the guy ius busy but could he really have been that much in the dark about how wide an area od destruction Katrina had caused?

So we have to look beyond that for a bit - look to the "crew" and why they did not work together. Get rid of the race issue unless America is willing to face up to the reverse discrimination that is going on now because of so much focus on one area that was affected and one area that is mainly one race that also happens to be poor, the area not the race. I don't see that happening because too much has been said, too much has been "hinted at" and too many have been ignored because they aren't part of the right race form the "right" area. Again I go back to Chalmette - for about 4 days it was *only* the local services tyring to save people. Now big govt sayinf it was up to local govt to ask for help - They tried to get outside help in. They asked FEMA, They asked the guard, the asked the Red Cross, they asked the President. People like myself even asked the media to stop ignoring the outside areas. It wasn't until after people were evacuated from the dome that things stated to shift outward to other parish's. Now there is some coverage, but when you hear about deaths they are not in the same context as those in New Orleans. While the deaths in New Orleans were caused by "slow response time by the Govt" because the people there were "so poor, and they are so black.." the deaths over in St Bernard Parish were because "People didn't evacuate when they were told" and "the local officals did nothing to help" and, one of the more publicized ones, "The staff just left the residents in the nursing home to die".

Local govt is at the forfront and the local pople were deailing with this at first - they were. However the issue became the fact there was too much going on and they needed outside help. Many did ask for it but it never came. *that* is the core issue as far a response goes. I can speak for the area I live in right now and I know that we have a limited fire department - and if something of this magnitude happened here we would be screwed. Why? because the neighboring towns would be in the same situation and we could not ask for assitance form them because they would be overwhelmed in their area as well. If the affected area was as wide as it is in the case of Katrina than the media would all focus on the nearist "huge city" and more than likely they would find a huge percentage of afro americans in one area and make the focus on them. That being the case we would be ignored for days, cut off from any outside help.

Also much issue being made anymore about the food and water supplies - I think it is pretty standard for the 2/3 days thing. Our local "diaster tips" states to have enough food and water for 2 - 3 days. When I was out in Hollywood they always used to say the same thing. And the day before Katrina hit the word was for those in the New Orleans area who could not get out to go to the dome with enough food and water for 2 - 3 days. So right now much finger pointing at why there was not enough food and water and how this could happen and, yes, the whole race issue. If we would all just open our eyes a bit more and see that most every place in the US has some sort of "diaster plan" and more than likely it is based on some average of 2 - 3 days. And you know - all the talk about the "poor people" - yes, they are poor and many do not have cars. But unlike the saying that "no one walks in L.A" you have, for example, New York City. if all the borroughs were forced to evacuate how many would not be able to get out? Imagine all the millions of people trying to get on subways or Metro North or LIRR all in the same 24 hour period. Roadways are gridlocked on a daily basis, imagine filling up the roads with all the people who do have cars.

Fact: The United States and all federal and local emergancy services will have to seriously re think evacuation plans. After September 11, 2001 a lot was done, but mostly "what if..." based on isolated events. We just got hit hard in the gulf coast - what if it had been the eastern seaboard? I know a few years ago they did a county wide "duiaster drill" in this area. Word was it worked great and as planned. But I find the wording of "county wide" misleading because if there really was a "county wide" diaster there would be a hell of a lot more than the 150 or so people who were involved in the drill needing serious help.

When I was a kid we used to have these airraid drills. We all to go out into the halls on the school and place out arms over our heads and lean against the walls. I think those old enbough to remember these drill, along with the "duck and cover" drills, know how little this would have helped us. The reality of a real word situaiton was hidden...or maybe underestimated by those who planned these drills. We have had the same thing here - all the planning and drills that have been done on a local and national level underestemated the outcome. Remember - reality check here folks - New Orleans is *not* the only area affected by Katrina. Over the last week this nation, maybe the world (?), has forgotten that.

I choose to focus what *I* can do on one parish because I have personal ties there. But I also understand the magnitude of this and it just is too overwhelming
deal with it all. That is why I think it is also so hard to deal with *how* this is being handeled. America is sort of in it's 'John Wayne mode' where so many expected someone to just ride in and save the day and it isn't gonna happen on this large of a scale. While the big goverment is only now starting to own up to how underprepared they were smaller subsections have already gone out and stated as much. An example is the The National Organization on Disability who issued a release a few days ago saying that it appears that the disability and special needs communities were under-prepared. Emergency Preparedness Initiative has been in touch with several of the authorities within the affected region, as well with Federal entities in Washington DC and there appears to be no singular coordinated special needs response.

So aside from what has been said about the overall response - by way of an example the stats they give are:

In Biloxi, Mississippi, a city of about 50,000 people, 26 percent of residents are people with disabilities. This means that there are 10,700 people with disabilities 5 years of age and older who live in Biloxi.

And if you want to break this down even further - evacuations and "why didn''t they?" I have heard a lot about "poor" but close to nothing about these issues.

for people with physical disabilities and who are over 65 years of age, being unable to leave their homes, group homes, nursing homes, hospitals without significant assistance;

So what about mass media and outrage over this?

No - as an example you get little blurbs like: Along the highway, Aleck Scallan, 63, sat in his wheelchair.

A group of police officers in a boat had rescued him from his home, which quickly flooded Tuesday morning, and dropped him off on the interstate on-ramp.

Then, they left. Scallan was left with a frail, elderly companion on a stretch of highway that fell below two giant humps, leaving them in the valley of the concrete slopes.

"Where am I going to go?" he said. "They were supposed to pick us up and take us to the dome."

Another one:
Alone in her one-bedroom house, Fluffy Sparks sat in her wheelchair and did the only thing she could think of when Hurricane Katrina's floodwaters rushed into her home: she prayed.

And another one:
"Help!" was the plea from a person in a wheelchair in New Orleans that flashed mid-storm on the BlackBerry of Mark Smith of the Louisiana office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness. "There's nothing we can do for this person right now," he said.

So what if 102,122 were stranded and died in New Orleans because of this? Would the focus shift and suddenly be "George Bush hates handicapped people" or would Wolf Blizter blurt out "... almost all of them that we see are so handicapped, and they are so crippled..". ?

Sorry for posting so long. I could go on more - but won't.

Coursedesign wrote on 9/12/2005, 11:04 AM
Lots of good points, Filmy.

Just one nit:

...who had ultimate responsabilty for making sure the shot was in focus. I still maintain it is the person actually operating the camera..the person looking through the lens combined with whoever is pulling foucs. Many maintain it is the D.P, even if they do not operate the camera. However no one said it was the execuctive producers fault, or the directors fault.

What do you mean "nobody said?" An executive producer who hires a DP who can't manage his department may be forgiven once, but certainly not twice. The investors will be the ones hurting, everbyody else got their paychecks.

If a company falters because the CEO hired a marketing VP who didn't do his job, do you really think the board will say "Oh, it's OK, an underling screwed it up."? Hell no, they will ask "why did you hire this guy and why didn't you fire him sooner?"

It seems to me that when we elect people to leading positions, we expect them to look ahead a little bit also, ie. "plan for success and prepare for failure."

If Michael Brown, say, had explained that he didn't know ten thousand people were suffering inside the Superdome because his secretary had forgotten to pass the office cable TV bill to accounting, would that have been acceptable? Do you think the Ragin' Cajun would have accepted that?

I don't think there was any racism involved in the Katrina response (or rather, lack thereof). It would have been exactly the same thing if white people in the Appalachias had been hit.

I'm sure the #1 factor involved was a different one. The politicians in Washington, DC naturally resonate the most with people who look like they do and live like they do, "whitebread types."

It's just normal psychology, and I think it relates less to race than to culture and wealth differences.
mark2929 wrote on 9/12/2005, 11:15 AM
Filmy this is a part of the CRUEL Society we live in.. Reporting is about selling Papers... Stories who need to find angles to stimulate an already apathetic readership.. I hope the real World that you are Experiencing is not destructive to your belief in Human Nature.. As there are plenty of examples of GOODness all around you... I applaud you and hope for the very best for everyone affected ! I just wish OUR Media was Balanced and fair over here too ..

Filmy TAKE Care and God be with you and everyone affected..
filmy wrote on 9/12/2005, 2:01 PM
>>>Do you think the Ragin' Cajun would have accepted that?<<<

Read my post elsewhere for some feedback about him. I think that overall there are lots of good "leaders" out there and they all have their niche. But my comment about not blaming the director or the executive producer if the dailies are out of focus was meant more as a crew concept - you hire these people to do certian things so you, in a sense, don't have to deal with it. In the thread we talked about this production related test no one said that it should be the director or the producer or the sound person or the editor and so on to keep a shot in focus. I pointed out it would be silly to so this. Likewise, in what you are presenting, It would be like saying Honore did not pre-plan and make sure there was enough food at the dome for people.

If you look at pre-hurricane pictures you will see the National Guard *were* at the dome. They were maintaining some crown control, keep in mind there was already a state of Emergency declaired. So I mean if you want to get super anal yeah, if Honore is in charge of the local army reserves why didn't he take *his* men in there and, barking out orders, get food and water in? He could have been searching people for guns, telling his men to patrol the restrooms to prevent the rapes. Where was he? Oh - wait, seemingly he was not allowed in, unable to make choices but to follow orders only. Aside form that he really has no authority to command National Guard or local police. Until he was told to go there and "adivse" the situation he did not seeminlg do too much to help. And when presented with the "red tape" question he blows up and goes against the "solder follow orders" mode and say that there is no red tape and anyone who wanted to come and help could have done so. My reply would have been either 1. "So you are saying you didn't *want* to help at first?" or 2. "So you are saying that anyone who wanted to come in and help has? If so than what was stopping you from coming in earlier?" and you know - we go back to the start again. (I am *not* saying what he is doing is bad nor am I saying that he did not want to help out, I am just saying that, like everyone else now, there is a lot of double talk and finger pointing going on.) So you know - the "executive producer" gets the ball rolling and it was assumed that the other people would follow along - if I need help I call 911. Most people, myself included, feel that whoever is on the other end knows who to call to make it happen. In turn whoever they call feel those people know what to do to save lives. If the 911 operator screws up is it fair to blame the local city/town/state govt? Should I call the Whitehouse and ask for GW next time I see something happen? I may not like the path to get to "the top" and I really hate all the BS "red tape" that goes with much of this stuff but , like most any 'local" event that goes beyond the "local" level, there has to be some chain of command - right now it just seems like after GW got that ball rolling, called 911 in a sense, the chain of command failed. It also seems that people who could have done something didn't because of the same "chain of command."

What we saw 100% on September 11 was the local first responders there in the heat of it. We saw it again here, although that has been really overlloked for the big picture. The big difference also is that we are not limited to one 16 acre area in which to do rescue and recovery. This is over a hundred miles of coastal destruction plus inland destruction plus at least 4 states involved. While the damage in Georgia (Peach, White and Carroll Counties) was somewhat minor compared to other states there was damage there and it was acted upon with little or no coverage. I have no doubt there were other pockets of damage that have not even been found yet by the "outside world". Matter of fact today's paper had an AP story about one of the areas in Mississippi about 50 miles inland - in part it says:

Ten miles from the nearest town, the farmers here aren't a priority for the emergency management crews or rescue workers who descended upon the Gulf Coast.

Does GW hate farmers now too?

Not that I disagree with the idea that if some of these people have screwed up in the past (your comment of can't manage his department may be forgiven once, but certainly not twice.) they should not have been allowed to deal with something of this magnitude, but than again we have not had something of this magnitude happen before in the United States...at least not in my life time. I think, seriously, that is GW had just come out and said something like "The magnitude and scope of this is unprescedented. We are looking into ways to get more aid into the regions affected by this event. We cannot get to everyone at one time, we may not even know each and every area affected by this and it may take weeks, even months, to fully graps the scope of the devistation. We have several agencys working on getting supplies to the needed areas, I have ordered the air national guard to start airlifiting supplies into areas today. I have authorized nearby milatary bases to allow whatever aid they feel they can provide. More supplies will be coming into the area in two days, or less to some areas. " And so on...I mean had he come out and said this on day one it would have helped matters somewhat. I mean GW gave *no* indication of what was being done and all the other crap that Homeland InSecurity and FEMA and Red Cross were all spurting out "help is on the way" didn't define anything.

Sort of like going ont a set and the director saying to everyone "We are making a film. So do your jobs!" and walking away. "But what do we do?" "you are an actor - so act. And...action!"
filmy wrote on 9/12/2005, 4:57 PM
If anyone here is interested in helping someone directly read on -
She is from new Orleans - evacuated and staying with her brother in Baton Rouge.

I am currently staying with my brother I have a daughter who has special needs she doesnt eat anything by mouth all I'm asking for is a little assistance with clothing and her medical needs she was getting her medical supplies ship to her but we lost all of that. I will like for someone just to reach out and help me with resources on finding out how can I go about getting Dantrell's medical supplies also is hoping that someone will bless us with a shopping spree. A brief history on Dantrell is that she was born 26wks. premmaturely, she was 1lb 11.5 ozs all of my baby information and pictures i had is gone due to hurricane katrina we lost everything that's why i'm not being picky i'm just asking for a shopping spree anywhere. I currently cannot work because Dantrell doesn't eat anything by mouth.

Danielle Williams
4008 Brady St.
Baton Rouge, Louisiana 70805
RichMacDonald wrote on 9/12/2005, 5:11 PM
>He asked the official why the body was still lying there – because he'd seen it there 5 days ago and it was still there, and many other people must've seen it too. It was really sad and disturbing.

Answer: "You want me to save live bodies or remove dead ones? Pick one."

IMHO, a dead body is just a dead body. YMMV.
Logan5 wrote on 9/12/2005, 5:15 PM
Send their info directly to the RedCross or Sal Army or have them call them.
They have the doctors & supplies and the money to help.
Baton Rouge has a massive Red Cross setup there.
filmy wrote on 9/12/2005, 5:20 PM
>>> Send their info directly to the RedCross or Sal Army ro have them call them.
They have the doctors & supplies and the money to help.
Baton Rouge has a massive Red Cross setup there.<<<

Negative there - Red Cross does not have direct means for special needs or handicaped/disabled people. They help out with certian things but even the RC adivises those with special needs to look outside of their orginization. Think I said that in a post earlier.
craftech wrote on 9/12/2005, 5:33 PM
i JUST wish People like craftech and everyone would direct their thinking towards the real Unpalatable Facts and see whats really going on.. While we are all being sidestepped by Outrageous Propaganda the real agenda is moving ahead..
II don't know what you mean by that. I don't post opinion without providing data to back it up. Check my posts above, particularly the timeline of events leading up to and after Katrina. I am not sure how that constitutes not wanting to see what is really going on. It is the very "Outrageous Propaganda" you stated that I am trying to expose. My timeline of newspaper articles, statements, and white house releases directly contradict the "damage control" distortions our government is trying to perpetrate using the media as a vehicle.
"For years the Rich Countries have been helping the elite Citizens and as a by product the citizens of those Countries well it seems that is no longer enough.. They NOW want the WORLD.. "
That is exactly how I feel about our government here. They turned Iraq into a lucritive playpen for the corporations that put them in power with inside contracts and incredible tax breaks that have put our budget deficit at record numbers. When the cap is maxed out they just vote to raise it. The ruling party (my party) has the majority and they abuse it. As I pointed out They just voted to put some of the same companies to work at Katrina Recovery that they had in Iraq with no-bid contracts with one $500,000,000 deal arranged by Bush's first appointment to FEMA who left in 2003 to use his White House "IN" to get contracts for corporations seeking to do business in Iraq. I pointed that out above on 9/10. The media JUST got around to reporting it today (TWO days later) after the deal was done and no one could stop it. That is how they operate. They either do not report it or they report a version of the story after it is signed and sealed so no one can complain. They did the same thing when there were MONTHS of Congressional haggling over the new laws that would restrict overtime pay to maximize the profits of big business. They didn't report on it. I knew about it for two months before they voted on it. The public at large found out about it AFTER the vote passed.

Tony Blair seriously cannot be trusted after LYING to Parliament about Iraqs Weapons of Mass destruction ready to go within 45 Minutes.. Regardless of whether the War was right or Wrong he outright LIED.. HE is trying to make sure we join Europe even though the British Public are most Likely against it.. The BBC seem to think they will be the Prime TV station of this new europe and IN my Opinion formed an alliance to making us commit..
Here is what you do not understand and it is the same misunderstanding many Brits I converse with have if they do not live in the United States.
Yes, I realize that the BBC and some of the other European major news outlets have been displaying bias. I also know how that appalls the British. When Brits see posts that complain about the US media they make a logical analogy to what they see at home. What none of you realize is the SCOPE of the problem in the United States. For example:
"Tony Blair seriously cannot be trusted after LYING to Parliament about Iraqs Weapons of Mass destruction ready to go within 45 Minutes.. Regardless of whether the War was right or Wrong he outright LIED.. "
How do you know he lied? Answer: Your media.
Do you realize that not ONE major American media network has accused George Bush of Lying about the same thing. George Bush blamed the Congress and the United Nations for approving the invasion and the CIA for telling him the wrong information and the public let him off the hook. Do you think the BBC would have gone along with a lie like that? CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, and to a degree PBS ALL let him get away with that.
Are there many in Britain that "doubt" the Downing Street Memo? Ask yourself why? Your media.
The American media used tactic number 1 regarding the Downing Street Memo - don't report it.

A full five weeks passed after The Downing Street Memo news broke in England without the media discussing it here. A Nexis database search will reveal that.

When Tony Blair came here to speak to Bush a British reporter asked Blair about it.

Then the US media HAD to address it so they went to plan 2. Discredit it.
Most Americans think the Downing Street memo was fabricated and was being used by the Democrats or some other "liberals" to discredit George W. Bush.
The chaiman of the Republican National Committee appeared on news programs and when asked about The Downing Street Memo he claimed that the 9/11 Commission (which wasn't even ALLOWED to address how the administration used the intelligence they got regarding Iraq) PROVED that the Downing Street Memo was false. An outright LIE and the media people NEVER challenged it.

People here who think the Bush Administration "lied" about Iraq are thoroughly discredited and labeled as "libs" who are out to get George Bush. That notion is supported by our media.
Many media outlets even had the nerve to distort the term "fixed around" used in The Downing Street Memo by saying that when the memo said "fixed around" the intelligence, in Great Britain that word really means "bolted on". In an exclusive interview with Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on the June 15 edition of MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews, Rice eagerly agreed with Matthews's suggestion that in Britain the word "fixed" really "means just put things together."
MATTHEWS: Before we go on, that second memorandum that has been talked about, the one that was originally dubbed the Downing Street memo, said that the intelligence and the facts were being fixed around the policy.

What do you make of that word, "fixed"? Is that an assertion, that we were fixing the argument, making a case for intel that said there was a connection with Al Qaeda, a connection with the WMD, just to get the war started?

RICE: Well, I don't understand -- I can't go back and judge what was said.

MATTHEWS: Well, there's an American sense of the word "fixed," which is like "fixed the race," "fixed the World Series."

RICE: Right.

MATTHEWS: There's a British sense, which means just put things together.

RICE: Put things together. And I know the people who were involved in this, and someone like the head at that time of the British intelligence service was very much involved in the discussions we were having on intelligence. A lot of the intelligence was from Great Britain, from British sources. And the entire world thought that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.

CNN and FOX also interviewed Condoleeza Rice and decided NOT to ask her about the Downing Street Memo.
CNN reported on the "informal hearings" on Capitol Hill regarding The Downing Street Memo but have since removed the page


And in keeping with my post above regarding poll numbers being spun by CNN one can reference pollingreport.com to see the current polls and the sample size and actual questions. All day I listened to the White House pundits on CNN that pass for reporters (Suzanne Malveaux, John King, Wolf Blitzer, etc) say things like:

"President Bush's stepped-up response to the Katrina disaster may be helping to push up his poll numbers a little bit. A new CNN/USA Today/Gallup survey out this hour shows Mr. Bush's approval rating is up -- up! -- to 46 percent. That's four to eight points higher than other polls taken over the past week. ". AND
""we have seen poll numbers improve" since Coast Guard Vice Adm. Thad Allen took charge of the Bush administration's Hurricane Katrina recovery efforts -"

The poll they cite is not listed on pollingreport.com because it wasn't a poll.

It was a comparison of different polls conducted by different pollsters for different news organizations including the Right Wing radio shows using different methodologies. CNN did not disclose that to their viewers. The real "polls" show Bush's approval of how he handled Katrina in a death spiral particularly with polls using the norm (a sample rate of 1000-1200) and unambiguous questions.

Logan5 wrote on 9/12/2005, 5:44 PM
Humm, well government programs for long term care.
If they lost their meds, the RC or other groups there are helping people with their lost meds.
The message in part asked for lost med supplies.

As for “special needs” where did they get them/help before? Maybe they could get the same care in the area.

If they need money for special needs, where are they going to buy them?
I’ don’t know what group would fit that bill from lack of info to direct them to.

Hope that helps…
RichMacDonald wrote on 9/12/2005, 6:32 PM
Now is a good time to update some personal stories:

1) My college-freshman cousin is staying at the Astrodome. She says it sucks :-)

2) My 75 yr old diabetic aunt-in-law had an amazing story. The 1st floor flooded so she went to the 2nd floor. The 2nd floor flooded so she went to the attic. The attic flooded and she couldn't get herself out. She hears her neighbor start his motorboat and yells. He comes over but cannot get into the house. Now for a sidetrack: When my wife was born, they planted an oak in the front yard. It grew to 6 ft and died, so they cut it down. It then grew to a 40 ft monster and has been known as "Pearl's tree" ever since. So the tree falls over onto the house. It misses her and opens a hole in the attic. She gets out through the hole, onto the boat, is picked up by a helicopter, dropped onto I-10 and spends the next 2 days there. Finally she is about to be flown out to a Boston hospital but is too sick for the flight so she gets into a local hospital and is doing fine.

2a) The aunt reported that one school was used to shelter 300 people. It flooded so fast that no one got out. Hopefully this is one of those tales that will turn out to be wrong.

I should note that the 75 yr old is a direct descendant of Marie Leveau, so this "guardian angel" luck is not unusual. Never seen a group of sisters do so consistently well at the slot tables.

3) My brother-in-law used to work with the NOPD (moved to Fort Collins 1 month ago) and went back there a few days ago to help out. They're in fairly bad shape, wearing the same clothes they had at the start. So he dropped a credit card to buy them uniform-looking pants, shirts suitcases, and so forth. My wife went around the catholic centers in Kansas City and the knights of columbus chipped in some money to cover the costs. A FEMA rep was contacted and should now be taking care of the police officers directly, since they don't have time to wait in line at the emergency centers. They're having a bad time since they aren't able to take care of their own personal emergencies and their families.

3a) You've no doubt heard about the police officers shooting themselves. One of them...a colleague went by his flooded house during a rescue, came back to the station and casually said: "your house is flooded and your wife and kids are dead", so the guy ate a bullet. Guess some of them kinda lost their sensitivity skills during the emergency.
Coursedesign wrote on 9/12/2005, 6:49 PM
The first time I was really surprised about the state of U.S. media was in the weeks after 9/11, when our reporters seemed afraid of their own shadows. They also seemed to be sending in all potential news items to somewhere by mail for vetting and pre-approval, because many of the key decisions in the U.S. were reported here two days after being reported in European newspapers.

Very odd to say the least.


Do you know the person who asked for help with a shopping spree? One has to give allowance for a lay person's decription of medical stuff, but I didn't think it was possible to be born alive after only a 3 month gestation period ("26 weeks premature"). Also I thought it would be a bit unusual for a parent to be qualified to provide IV feeding ("no food by mouth").

I'm only asking because I once gave a healthy sum of money to a mother "stranded, from out-of-town" who told me of a particularly horrible immediate personal emergency, then I saw her paying the bill at one of the best restaurants in Los Angeles a few hours later.
filmy wrote on 9/12/2005, 6:58 PM
Maybe I should have added on to what I posted instead of just putting her words down. It is more of a longer term issue. Her number is there so anyone who wants to call direclty can do so - get info you need or call and give info you think she might need to her directly - that was the point. It wasn't until recently I stopped to think about this sort of stuff. When my father was alive he became disabled, though he never ever looked at himself that way. Beyond that my mother worked for, and my wife works for, an ARC and it dawned on me "what about them?" Overall they could not have gotten out without special help of some sort and this ties into the post. Her info was provided by the ARC...and at this point I don't believe her child falls under any help the ARC could provide.

There is a special fund set up to help out those special needs patient displaced by Katrina. it is not via Salvation Army or Red Cross, it is made directly via the ARC. However the fund, and this side of things, has not gotten any media that I am aware of. I posted earlier about those with disablities - this somewhat falls under that as well, and there ar eplaces dealing direclty with that as well. I think I am just wanting to point out some things more personal in this thread to bring it down to a level that will start to get away from only one place, one race and one mess caused by many things.

Just for the record, direct from the Red Cross here are some items of interest - overall things:

Have a care plan for your pet. Plan for the care of your pets if you have to evacuate your home. Pets, unlike service animals, will not be allowed into emergency shelters. So, it is best to decide now where you will take your pet if you must leave.

Have a care plan for your service animal. Service animals are allowed in hotels or motels and Red Cross shelters. However, these places cannot care for your animal. When you leave your home, remember to take a collar, harness, identification tags, records of vaccinations, medications, and food for your service animal with you.

Do not depend on only one person. Include a minimum of three people in your network for each location where you regularly spend a lot of time during the week.

Arrange with your network to check on you immediately if local officials give an evacuation order or if a disaster occurs. Do this before an emergency happens so that your network members can help you when you need them.

Some items *not* from the Red Cross -

In the aftermath of earthquakes, hurricanes, or other disasters, many disabled victims have criticized disaster-relief organizations such as the Red Cross and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) for being ill-equipped to deal with their unique concerns.

So anyway - my point is that comments like "go to the Red Cross" don't always help in some cases. In my other post I said if I call 911 I expect whoever answer to get th eball rolling. Most people feel that calling the Red Cross will do the same thing, and in a large sense it does - but in a really large sense it doesn't. Hell in this case we have people who are *not* disabled or injured having to drive all over trying to find a Red Cross outlet that will help them. What are people doing that have no means to do this? The people who had to wait on the side of the 10 hoping a bus would come and take them to some sort of shelter. I can't imagine having a premie who can not be fed via mouth and having to not only evacuate your home and loosing your, as the red Cross terms it, "network" *and* being without anything - cloths, meds and a long term outlook. I think the "shopping spree" is more to get items that the Red Cross may not provide - and look, it is a premie. How many people do you know that have premie cloths laying around to donate? I don't have them and I don't even have a clue how to get them.

Not related directly to Katrina but part of a Red Cross/Premie story from someone who survived a house fire -

The Red Cross evacuated us to a hotel, giving us 7 days to relocate. I will never forget living in that hotel, caring for a premie infant who needed EVERYTHING sterilized, and going out daily in one blizzard after another to try to find a place to live. My Ex and I took turns going out and staying with the baby. When we left the hotel to go eat at the place arranged for us by the Red Cross, he would put the baby in the kangaroo carrier under his big parka and he'd lead the way down the street, with me ducked down behind him, holding on to his coat, his big shoulders cutting the wind and blowing snow for me, his feet making pathways for me to walk in.
craftech wrote on 9/12/2005, 7:51 PM
I read through most of these posts again and I believe that my timeline and links above should dispell the distortions going around the media that are extensions of White House efforts to place the blame on the mayor of New Orleans, The Democrat Governor of Louisiana, and most recently Mike Brown (Head of Fema - sacrificial lamb for the administration).

I believe (someone correct any mistakes you find please) that my timeline and documents are accurate and should prove a valuable reference as the distortions increase over the next few months.

The only thing I saw posted numerous times and have heard reported as fact by most of the networks and has even made it to the BBC website unrefuted through the Associated Press is the TALE OF THE SCHOOL BUSES.

Let's put that distortion in check.

The source of the story is the Washington Times that I ripped into after Riredale's post. It is owned and operated by The Reverend Sung Myung Moon founder of the South-Korean based Unification Church in 1954. His followers regard he and his wife as the True Parents of humankind and hail him as The Messiah. When he came to the US in 1965 he funneled the million dollars he brought with him into The Unification Church. In 1974 the press started calling the Curch members "Moonies" and deemed it a "cult" rather than a church following with accusations that he was using mind control and brainwashing to extort money out of them. In the 1970s, Moon was accused of breaking up families by aggressively encouraging young college students to break off contact with the outside world, and sell trinkets to raise money for the church. Church sources counter that Moon urged members to "write a letter to your parents every ten days."

In 1982 U.S. federal prosecutors charged Rev. Sun Myung Moon with criminal tax fraud, and a federal Grand Jury found him guilty and gave him an 18-month sentence and a $15,000 fine. He served 13 months of the sentence at Danbury minimum-security prison and because of good behavior was released to a halfway house. Moon is forbidden under theSchengen Treaty to travel to major continental European countries; Japan similarly refuses him entry.

Supporters regard the tax case as politically motivated. They also dismiss the news criticisms as liberal bias and defend Moon's alliance with conservatives as crucial for liberating America from sin and guiding it to lead a world of peace.

In the 1990s, thousands of Japanese elderly claimed to have been defrauded of their life savings by Moon followers' spiritual sales, a conviction upheld in 1997 by the Supreme Court of Japan.

Moon reportedly spent a billion dollars from business-related sources to establish and support the influential conservative newspaper The Washington Times which he called in 2002 "the instrument in spreading the truth about God to the world."
Under United States federal tax law, 501c charitable institutions, like churches, may not engage in political speech without losing their tax exemption status. The newspaper is a way around that.
Moon's followers are indirectly supporting George W. Bush's faith-based initiative at the grass-roots level, due to a common interest in increasing religious participation in government-funded social services, and in encouraging sexual abstinence as a solution to unwed pregnancy over an emphasis on contraceptive promotion. By 2003 Unificationist missionaries were working for their longtime goal of sex purity in New Jersey public schools, on a government abstinence-based sex education grant.

That same many Christian ministers began joining Rev. Moon's "take down the cross " campaign themewhile some Christians expressed offense that it would take place during Easter.

A long time Bush family friend Moon and his wife were honored at The Ambassadors For Peace ceremony in Washington. There he announced that he would save everyone on Earth as he had saved the souls of even such murderous dictators as Hitler and Stalin who he claimed had received "the Blessing" through him. Moon said the reformed Hitler and Stalin vouched for him from the Spirit World.calling him "none other than humanity's Savior, The Messiah, Returning Lord and True Parent.

Now that you have the background of the source of the story about the schoolbuses which stated that although Nagin ordered a mandatory evacuation before the hurricane's arrival, he "kept the city's 2,000 school buses parked and locked in neat rows when there was still time to take the refugees to higher ground." lets discuss the truth.

The story started making the rounds on equally dubious websites such as Powerline and Little Green Footballs, Michelle Malkin, and finally arrived at Fox News to start the rounds in the networks, most recently George Stephanopoulos of ABC on 9/11/05 where it was broadcast as FACT.
The most recent record on file of the LA school bus fleet for that area is from May 5, 2003. If you look at the figure it states under Vehicles
"Fixed route buses: 364"
the Orleans Parish school district, which operates New Orleans' public schools, owned only 324 school buses.
That makes a total of 688 school buses, not 2000. I would find it hard to imagine an areat that poor adding 1312 school buses since then or even needing that many more.

On September 4 in the New York Times. they stated that LA emergency planners believed it would take as many as 2,000 buses "to evacuate an estimated 100,000 elderly and disabled people" in the event of a catastrophic hurricane like Katrina. But, this was "FAR MORE THAN New Orleans POSSESSED."

MSNBC stretched it by saying that there were 200 school buses and stated:
WASHINGTON - Some 200 New Orleans school buses sit underwater in a parking lot, unused. That's enough to have evacuated at least 13,000 people. Why weren’t those buses sent street by street to pick up people before the storm?

It appears that that was the entire fleet. The school board said that they had 70 broken down buses and no "contractor owned" school buses.

Hannity on Fox News: ""Two thousand buses sat; 2,000 school buses."
Stephanoupoulos on ABC: "there were 2,000 buses under water" that New Orleans Mayor C. Ray Nagin could have used to evacuate his city before Hurricane Katrina's arrival."
Newt Gingrich on Fox: No. The fact -- the fact is there were more than enough buses to, in a methodical, orderly way, help every poor person in New Orleans leave the city. And the mayor and the city failed to use the buses that existed and failed to help people in an orderly way.

I have no doubt that the 2000 school buses number will continue to to be repeated in the months to come as if it were fact.

Start Counting.


PS: Speaking of The Red Cross and in keeping with FOX NEWS' tradition of helping the White House smear people Fox News, National Review editor Rich Lowry last Wednesday interviewed an editor from Newsweek:
Lowry: ....But let me ask you, since we have this blame game now going in full force in Washington, do you personally think it was a good idea for the state of Louisiana to deliberately block Red Cross supplies from the Superdome and the convention center last week in an attempt, in effect, to starve out the evacuees there?
CLIFT: Well, the blame game is a derogatory term for accountability. And we've had failures on the part of government and our leaders at the local level, at the state level --
LOWRY: So that was a mistake? That was a mistake?
CLIFT: And at the presidential -- yes, and at the presidential level --
LOWRY: So you tonight are holding Governor Blanco accountable for trying to starve out evacuees last week from the Superdome and the convention center? For the record, you're holding her accountable?

craftech wrote on 9/12/2005, 8:40 PM
I don't think the media (for all it's shortcomings) is saying that blacks were being discriminated against. Some prominent black figures suggested it, but it isn't getting much of an ear by anyone. The fact that the poor haven't been the focus of attention in this country (for so long now I can barely remember it) IS getting attention.
I don't think a lot of people realize just how many poor people there are in the US. The cameras haven't been focued on the poor since the seventies. No one is going to play into the "discrimination against blacks" theme. Blitzer (who I can't stand for different reasons) did not either.

I think the media served one good purpose in all of this (aside from the fact that I believe they are going to systematically spin this for Bush). That is that many of them truly were moved by what they saw and went above the call to help them. From hand rescues that they were NOT supposed to do to pointing recuers in the right direction to getting water and/or food for them and MOST of all to try to hook these people up with their loved ones.
Don't forget, they were the first ones in there. That is why I had to laugh when the government used the excuse that they couldn't get in there. That they literally had to "chop their way" in there. The media got in there OK. They were able to assist the first responders and later the Guard and the Red Cross and point out people that needed help. They probably saved lives. If they would have stuck to that they would remain heros IMO. It's that ongoing catering and selective reporting and intentional dispensing of misinformation to cover for this government that they have been engaged in recent years that I can't stand anymore. But as human beings, they were great when it came to Katrina rescue.

Whether they intended to or not, their coverage made me thoroughly realize why so many of them refused to leave. If I were one of them, I probably wouldn't have left either.

PossibilityX wrote on 9/12/2005, 9:46 PM
Media, like "government" and 'business" and "the church" is comprised of --- whom?


And we all know how flawed THEY can be.

My main complaint with the press is that they don't call public officials on their BS. In press conferences, I've yet to see / hear a reporter say to a public official:

"I'm sorry, but I'm completely unwilling to accept your sound bite BS. In case you've forgotten, no matter how powerful you may be, YOU work for US --- not the other way around. Which means you WILL answer the question without equivocation, you WILL cut the BS, and you WILL discuss this openly and honestly --- or we will hound you like a pack of demons until you crack like an egg, MF!"

There might have been a time in our past when reporters actually carried a set of balls along with their press credentials; I'm uncertain. In my 47 years on this planet, I ain't seen it.

The job of the press is to subject the powerful to a very uncomfortable level of scrutiny, with the goal of uncovering ANY bullshit.

Sadly, the press I see seems unwilling or unable to do this.

I'd be interested in knowing what the rest of you think about the disappearance of the press's testicles in this regard.
johnmeyer wrote on 9/12/2005, 10:32 PM
I'd be interested in knowing what the rest of you think about the disappearance of the press's testicles in this regard.

I cannot remember a time when the press ever handled interviews in the manner you suggest (and I'm slightly older than you, so my memory goes back further). I can tell you with certainty that they are far, far, more confrontational now than they ever were before.

How can I be so certain? Well, I just came across some videotapes of Reagan's Iran Contra press conference, taped at the time, unexpurgated and exactly as it happened. If you remember, this was expected to be Reagan's Watergate, and the press smelled blood. Yet, if you think the press back then was tougher and more demanding -- even at a time like that -- then you simply have forgotten how things used to be. In particular, twenty years ago people in public life -- the press included -- were far more civil and would never have used the words "BS" or "MF" or even thought them. And they would not have -- and in fact did not -- "demand" an answer. As a result, the questions in that news conference were tough, and the answers very forthright (and surprisingly lucid -- this was still pretty early in Reagan's presidency), but no one was grandstanding by demanding answers and not backing down until they got the answer they wanted to hear.

I also, in the same set of tapes, came across several newscasts from the same era. One from CBS and one from ABC. Again, I was struck by the tremendous change from what we hear today. There was a true balance to stories, and a total absence of the "sky is falling" rhetoric that permeates all forms of news today.

Let me give you one example of a simple piece of news that has been included in virtually every news broadcast since the beginning of time: The stock report. Back then, they reported on the stock market being up, with a few companies reporting good earnings, and a few companies reporting bad earnings. That was it. By contrast, that same report today always includes some nonsense of why the market is up or down (like anyone really knows) such as "jitters over the war in Iraq (or hurricane)," or "fears of a pending recession," etc. This in turn makes everyone worry (needlessly) about the future and leads to the feelings of helplessness and, as we have seen repeatedly in this thread, displaced anger. The more the press tries to explain the past (as in my example) or predict the future (as they have tried to do the past two weeks with their completely botched and exaggerated predictions of hurricane body counts), the less actual, reliable news we get.

Being more confrontational (which your testicles example suggests) is what the press is already doing (watch CNN Crossfire, for instance, if you like those sort of questions -- you'll get questions phrased almost exactly as you suggest any time you tune in). We sure don't need more of that! After watching thirty minutes of that garbage, see if you think either the press or you have learned anything useful.

Thus, I would argue we need far less grandstanding, showboating, and "Miss Cleo" predictions, and a lot more hard-nosed, unfashionable but old-fashioned, digging up facts and simple reporting of same.

If any of the rest of you have a library of tapes from the late 1970s or early 1980s (the beginning of the VCR era), pull out a tape that includes news broadcasts and watch them. You will be absolutely amazed and -- for a change -- enlightened.
mark2929 wrote on 9/13/2005, 1:50 AM
John (Craftech) The truth is Katrina was a natural disaster.. A lot of people seem to think you can hold people in power accountable for Nature.

Iraq WAS not invaded because of Oil this is a complete red Herring..IRAQ Was invaded because a Dictater was capable of Genocide was not complying to UN Sanctions designed to stop him from using Weapons of Mass destruction..

ONE Simple Question IF he had them would he have Used them YES/NO.. If Yes then would he Have Built them.. YES/NO If Yes then we needed to make sure he didnt use them YES/NO.. If yes then How on earth are we supposed to do that if he wont let us or is Playing Games.. Prevention.. For everyones safety Had to be a decision MADE and thank goodness there are some who will do whats neccesary even in the Light of A rabid Media looking to create a catasrophic environment that rich Pickings can be gleaned.. Your Posts demonstrate how effective the Media circus has become..While you and others all latch on to the What ifs and concocted maybes the Propaganda is deflecting the real issues..

Yes there may be unfair awards of contracts and other business dodgy stuff BUT the simple fact is IRAQ was not invaded to take its OIL... FACT..


OPENLY said in Parliament that Iraq had Weapons of Mass destruction that could be used in 45 Minutes I do not think the BBC or any Media made this up the words come from Blair Himself How on earth he managed to keep his Job is Testament to the Way in which Lying has become acceptable...

In order to watch TV we have to pay a licence fee in the UK to the BBC.. The BBC also sells programs to other Countries Its in there interest to appeal to those countries by sometimes playing up to Their Propoganda.. The UK Licence payer is a fixed income...The BBC has also been involved in Promoting itself to Europe and worldwide IN the Belief they will become Europes PREMIER TV Network.. Tony Blair in my Opinion has influenced the BBC to further His cause to Integrate us into Europe and sell us out...All Our Money goes to europe Now.. We are being made to pay for this Orwellian Nightmare AND for Euro MPs to share in a Trough of Extravagance..They give us back what they dont need and to stop us from Noticing..But all OUR money goes to Brussels.. Yes Germany HOME of the BilderBergers..Conspiracy Paradise.. Its a provable ELITIST Gentlemens Club Where your Very own George Bush Likes to frequent..The reason for this Club? A place where they can relax ...Perhaps it is... But "seriously" These people must become Friends and Talk and help each other.. SURELY This goes against the Interests of Their Electorate..

And then There is G8..

America Europe and the World are all up for Grabs with the Elite Planning our Futures behind Closed doors WE the People are not invited.. In fact we are no more than Pawns.. The Media Once the defenders of the Faith has become so Competitive that they will do anything within the boundaries of not being brazenly dishonest..Looking to create stories.. TRUTH and fiction have become One..This has given OUR Elite Leaders the Ability to get away with Controlling Populations and the Beginning of a new World Order that will Have A world leader with a few Elite at the Top controlling World Citizens..HOW else can this turn OUT..Even if the Intent is not there Which personally I think it is and with NO effective "Media" to Police the truth.... People in Power HAVE to Move Forward because of Competition.. It can only Logically go one way..

There are a lot of threats to our Freedom today..

We must make sure that we all send a clear SIGNAL to our Media and lobby for changes in the Law that stop our Media from Hyping up sexing up Spinning or otherwise Lying when it comes to factual based news ITS NOT ACCEPTABLE..
craftech wrote on 9/13/2005, 6:17 AM
John (Craftech) The truth is Katrina was a natural disaster.. A lot of people seem to think you can hold people in power accountable for Nature.
Mark. George Bush got re-elected on a platform that HE was the more capable candidate to "keep us safe" despite claims that he was short changing homeland security to fund the Iraq war. Their claimed "proof" was that "we haven't been attacked again". What has people upset here is that the Katrina disaster was the first test of how well we as a nation are really prepared for a widespread diaster, either man-made or natural. The late response by the government and the helpnessness of those affected who absolutely needed Federal intervention this time points up the fact that we are NOT prepared for a widescale terrorist attack. This government pays for it's foreign ventures through CUTS in domestic programs, projects, etc. They strap the states, for example with having to foot much of the bill for mandated educational reforms who in turn pass it off to the local governments who in turn raise local taxes to pay for them. Then they get on the media and brag about how their tax cuts (two since Bush took office) are helping the people and the media doesn't challenge it. The tax cuts benefited the government's base - the wealthy.
There were cuts made in civil projects that may have helped reduce the damage and loss of life in the Gulf Coast. But the government's concern is how to best convince the public that the cuts wouldn't have made any difference. The government's concern is also how to shift the onus of responsibility for the delayed response to someone else, and if people died as a result of the delay it is someone elses fault. The only way they can get away with that is through the media. I can post countless detailed examples of how they are doing just that if the ones I gave aren't enough.
Iraq WAS not invaded because of Oil this is a complete red Herring..I
I think you are confusing me with someone else. I never said that, nor do I think that. The reason's IMO are complex. That is why I do not want to start detailing it in THIS THREAD.

OPENLY said in Parliament that Iraq had Weapons of Mass destruction that could be used in 45 Minutes I do not think the BBC or any Media made this up the words come from Blair Himself How on earth he managed to keep his Job is Testament to the Way in which Lying has become acceptable...
You hit the difference between your media and our media right on the head. That statement was made here as well along with linking 9/11 with Saddam Hussein. This government simply has to deny they said it and the media gives platform to the lie. Despite the fact that the transcripts are readily available on the internet the media allows the government and it's party pundits to freely lie on the air. Right now the official reason we invaded Iraq is to "spread freedom". The media never says to these people. "Whoah, wait a minute. You said it was because Saddam Hussein didn't cough up the WMD's and we gave him long enough to do it". Instead they not only allow them to lie, but they repeat it themselves.

How did Blair keep his job? It is my understanding that the Iraq War (which was widely opposed by the people of your country) was favored by the opposition as well so the people chose what they considered to be the lesser of two evils.

craftech wrote on 9/13/2005, 6:47 AM
Yet, if you think the press back then was tougher and more demanding -- even at a time like that -- then you simply have forgotten how things used to be. In particular, twenty years ago people in public life -- the press included -- were far more civil and would never have used the words "BS" or "MF" or even thought them. And they would not have -- and in fact did not -- "demand" an answer.
I am at least as old as you are and this is complete nonsense. They didn't curse, but they were not afraid to ask questions. The Watergate investigation would NOT TAKE PLACE TODAY. The media today would never be allowed to investigate anything like that.
I can also remember in the seventies Geraldo Rivera getting physically pushed and the cameraman assaulted by an oil ship's crew as they tried to get them to explain why the water level line indicated the ship was full of oil and why they were cruising around in the water for days on end without making a delivery while the price of gas was being gouged at the pump; and No GAS signs caused long lines down the street.
That type of investigative reporting doesn't exist anymore. You are completely wrong.

Bill Moyers (of PBS) who is now a target of the White House said two years ago:

[Big Media companies keep getting bigger, with more and more power over our lives. This week's deal between General Electric (GE) and Vivendi means that GE'S NBC, which helped elect Arnold Schwarzenegger Governor of California, has just picked up not only Universal Studios, but the USA, Trio, and Sci-fi cable channels to go with CNBC and MSNBC, all part now of a $43 billion dollar empire."
Then there's radio. The non-partisan Center for Public Integrity is out with a new study showing that in each of 43 different cities a third of the radio stations are owned by a single company. No company's supposed to own more than eight in any market, but the media giants thumb their nose at the rules all the time. In 34 of those 43 markets, one company owns more than eight stations.
It's a similar story in television. No single company is supposed to control more than one television station per city, except in some big markets. But look at what's happened in Wilmington, North Carolina, where there are three network affiliate stations: Fox, NBC and ABC. This year, the Fox station changed hands. On paper, the new owner was Southeastern Media Holdings. But then Southeastern Media announced that Raycom Media would help manage the company. Raycom already owns the NBC station, so it combined the two news departments and laid off much of the staff.

But hold on to your hat. Raycom and Southeastern Media Holdings turn out to be part of the same company. Now there's not only one less independent news operation in Wilmington, there's also one less media company.

The flimflam-ery goes on. In 33 other cities, stations that are supposed to be competitors have found clever ways to undermine the existing rules, mergers and takeovers, for example. Remember when Viacom married CBS and Rupert Murdoch's News Corp ponied up for the television stations owned by Chris-Craft? Those deals put both conglomerates in violation of the rule that no one company can control stations that reach more than thirty five percent of the total audience. But so what? The FCC just rolled over, winked, and gave both conglomerates temporary waivers of the rule. A little time passed and this summer the FCC raised the limit to give the big guys what they wanted, anyway. But that giveaway brought protests from over two million citizens; they turned the FCC into a beseiged Bastille on the Potomac. Such indignation from the grass roots caused even the Senate to say, "Whoa, something's going on. People really care about this issue." And the Senate stopped the FCC in its tracks. There are enough votes to do the same in the House. But then General Electric, owner of NBC; News Corp, owner of Fox; Viacom, owner of CBS; and Walt Disney, owner of ABC, brought on the hired guns — the lobbyists — to wage a Trojan War on Congress. A passel of former insiders moved through the revolving door, rolodex in tow, trading their influence for cash — top aides of the Senate Majority Leader, the House Majority Whip and of John Ashcroft himself.

Now the most powerful Republican in Congress — Tom Delay, the House Majority Leader — won't let a vote happen. The effort to reverse the FCC is dead in the water, sinking the democratic process with it.]

The effort to relax FCC rules that required balanced reporting started with Ronald Reagan. He is the father of the rise of the Media Empires that now control the flow of information to the public. That is why in one short week (when he died) the media turned him into "the greatest president that ever lived". Just ask anyone who doesn't know any better after watching that nonsense across the networks.
"Sir, Sir, excuse me sir, where were you when Ronald Reagan changed YOUR life?"

ForumAdmin wrote on 9/13/2005, 6:59 AM
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