BillyBoy, I agree, the more power the better, but...

I'm just wondering if it could be something easier...?

Mickey...The reason I ask, your first statment is that you are 'researching updating your editing software'... So are you using the demo version of Vegas??

--Just throwing out some thoughts

I am currently using videowave 4.0 and Ulead VideoStudio 4.0
I have this problem in both applications, so I am presuming it is not the software that is causing the problem. I am currently investigating the possibly upgrading to Vegas, among other applications.
It seems that it could be an expensive operation....
When you say get another hard drive for rendering/output, does this have any affect other than allowing extra space to store video (i.e. would it possibly cause the problem that I am having)?

mickey,

"...You didn't mention what OS you are using but with these specs, you are going to be experiencing pain. 128MB of RAM just can't cut it. I would look at a hardware upgrade across the board(maybe the hard drive might be okay) before any software updates.

Cheers,

Cuzin B"

I best not keep both threads going...
I am using Windows Me (2000, it there a difference. I can't check for sure at the moment, because the computer I use for video is actually at my parents house).
Is this operating system OK. When you say hardware upgrade across the board, I guess you mean RAM (obviously) and CPU. Does the CPU have a major affect on video editing, especially output? I guess if it does, I will have to upgrade.

Windows ME? That would be the first thing that I would get rid of. It is the absolute worst choice of the Win 9x series due to the believable amount of crap that gets installed with a standard install. It is a slow, plodding OS that most who have tried it got rid of immediately.

Windows 2000/XP is light years beyond any Win9x series OS. The stability alone is worth the upgrade - however with your current hardware - this upgrade would probably not be beneficial. If you have to stay with this hardware for a while - I would immediately ditch ME and do a fresh install of Win 98SE - this OS works great with limited hardware and you may see a nice improvement for your projects.

Cheers,

Cuzin B

I would respectfully disagree with Cuz' statement that 128 mb RAM won't cut it. I've never run a 600 mhz machine, but my vv20 box states system requirements are 400 mhz (I'll have to check current SF requirements for version 3.0a), so, again, the argument for more horsepower might be suspect. I would not be too quick to blame your systems marginal specifications for the problem.

More likely is the possibility that something in your system is interrupting or diverting your editing ap during 'stream critical' processes. I run VV30a on a 900 mhz machine (also slow by today's standards), and have never had more than 128 mb of RAM (the bus is 100 mhz, though).

I once experienced problems similar to yours and it turned out to be my Logitech USB marble pointing device whose most recent drivers, when I downloaded/installed them, would interfere with playback or print to tape on my machine. I got symptoms that closely resemble what you describe. Every real-time process on my machine (even continuous movement of the mouse pointer) started and stopped, almost like the tick of a clock. When I uninstalled the Logitech mouse driver, everything returns to normal. I now use the driver installed by my OS (I run WinXP).

If I were you, I'd consider wiping that disk and re-installing everything from the OS up, checking performance as you add devices (mouse, drawing pads, printers . . . watch out for printers, some of the whizbang aps that accompany their drivers can really drain resources). Where possible, use drivers that are native to the Win98 OS so that you can eliminate third party drivers as a possible source of your problem.

Then, run your video editing ap and check for performance. If it works, then, your modest hardware is not the source of your problem.

That said, your 20 gig drive (especially if it is your only drive) does represent a handicap to your system.

You don't mention how fast it is, or how much free capacity remains. If it is your only drive and you run near capacity, this, too could cause similar problems. A second (I'd go with a larger capacity while you're at it) drive, internal or external firewire, would probably net you some tangible benefits.

Good luck, and, if you do manage to isolate the problem so that this system functions properly for you, please report back so we may learn from your experience.

Caruso

Caruso,

And I will have to respectfully say that you need to stopping believing cardboard shipping boxes and start believing what the rest of the community already knows. Just because Microsoft stated on the Windows 95 box that it would run with 4 MB of RAM didn't mean it actually worked, ya know.

And you are running XP on a 900? How can your advise compare here? This guy is working with the most taxing of media streams on one of the crappiest OS's ever offered and has 128 MB of RAM but continues to try to fight it instead of cutting his losses and thinking about shopping around. Hardware becomes obsolete - that's a fact. This guy's rig is a paperweight in the recording industry now.

Our original poster can try a few things - memory being the first (hell it's so cheap - what's the problem?) Change to Win98SE and redo his machine from scratch...I am not sure if all this would help.

Here's the news on your system - Win XP is using over half of your physical memory just to take care of it own housekeeping - and you are going to actually use your DAW and it's programs with that little amount of memory? If 128 is just fine, then why do I use 1GB and tons of other on here are at 512MB at a minimum...

Just wondering.

Cuzin B

Yeah, as I said, my OS may actually be windows 2000. The computer I use is at my parents house so I wont be absolutely sure until I go back again at the end of this week. The CPU may actually be a little bit more powerful as well. But, I know there is only 128MB of RAM.
So here's my plan. Buy an extra 128MB of RAM and reinstall all the drivers or whatever Caruso suggested I do. And, if money allows it (i.e. my Dad will be paying for the upgrade and the new software when I get round to that) an extra hard-drive.

Is there anyone that thinks this is not a sensible course of action. The only thing I am worried about is spending money and then finding that the problem has not been fixed.

Thanks,
Mickey

Cuz:
(And I will have to respectfully say that you need to stopping believing cardboard shipping boxes and start believing what the rest of the community already knows.)

Actually, I tend to base my comments on my own experience, not on cardboard boxes, and certainly not on "what the rest of the community [allegedly] already knows."

My experience with SF is that their product claims tend to be rather low on hype (almost to their detriment) and high on performance/reliability. I have checked their virtual “cardboard box” and it clearly states that VV will run on a 400 mhz machine with 128 mb RAM. They also claim that a 7200 rpm HD is required, but, I know that last requirement to be conservative, as I regularly use 5400 rpm drives (in combination with several 7200 rpm drives) and both work well with VV. In fact, I cannot detect any advantage or disadvantage of one over the other. My point is that SF tends to err on the safe side when listing their minimum requirements, so, if they say VV should work with 400mhz/128mb, then, based on my SF experience, I believe them.

(This guy is working with the most taxing of media streams on one of the crappiest OS's ever offered and has 128 MB of RAM but continues to try to fight it instead of cutting his losses and thinking about shopping around.)

Actually, I believe his system should be capable of the tasks he seeks to accomplish IF - his HD is sufficiently fast and if there is enough free space left on it. He didn't share that info with us, so I asked him about it in my previous post. No matter how fast his drive is, 20 gb won’t leave him much working space after he loads his OS, any non-editing aps, and VV (or some other video editing ap). Most of my projects require almost 20 gb just for the final render . . . not counting the space required to capture/store the raw footage from which I extract that final render. 20gb is really slim, and, additionally, it sounds as though this one drive is the only HD on his system – a known cause of problems not unlike the symptoms this poster describes. I think his HD could be a major source of his problems, that’s why I asked him about it.

(Our original poster can try a few things - memory being the first)

He's had his machine (still under warranty) back to his techs, and they seem to agree with me that memory is not his problem . . . now, if he is just hankerin' to buy memory, fine, but, in terms of solving his problem, it isn't where his techs are looking "first" nor would more memory be the "first" thing I'd try. His problem appears to be occurring during CPU/disk intensive operations, so, if it were my problem, that's where I'd start troubleshooting first. First, I’d look at making certain disk space is ample – and definitely consider increasing capacity (which, for certain, he’s going to need once he gets his system working properly) via a separate physical drive. That might solve his problem, but, if not, I’d look for some ap or driver that is diverting his CPU/disk resources during stream-critical tasks. Neither you nor I suggested that he use End Task (ctrl-alt-del-end) to shut down stuff that might be running in the back ground (in his OS, all that should be running before he starts VV is EXPLORER and SYSTRAY). You and I didn’t suggest it, but we should have, and he should and can try this before trying anything else.

Regarding WinME, you may not like it, Cuz, but that hardly validates your classy statement that it is the "crappiest OS ever offered." My 900 is networked to a 233 (even slower than our original posters machine), and, as long as I run programs designed to work on 233 mhz or less, the machine and WinME behave very nicely. There is no question that WinXP and Win2k are more stable, but, if our original poster is like me, he probably has some soft/hardware that is not compatible with XP/2k. My 900 dual boots to Win98SE which I keep for programs/hardware that won't run on XP (parallel scanners, for example . . .), so I'm also familiar with that OS.

(Here's the news on your system - Win XP is using over half of your physical memory just to take care of it own housekeeping)

Did you read that on a “cardboard box”, on some BBS, or you gleaned it from some Mem-meter on your machine and assume that mine is the same. Actually, it doesn’t really matter to me. If what you say is true, then, the real news on my system is that XP does one heck of a job with the other half of my physical memory, because I regularly edit 8 - 10 track, two-hour projects with nary a bog down or glitch during edit, capture, or print to tape, and, when necessary, I'll open more than one instance of VV, and, edit from within Wavelab all at the same time. XP is, obviously, very good at allocating the memory on my system, thank you, and VV, for all its power, does not tax my system much except when rendering/printing/capturing. It's not unusual for one or more instances of VV to be running on my machine for 10-15 hour stretches. It never crashes and never bogs down.

( - and you are going to actually use your DAW and it's programs with that little amount of memory?)

I've used it extensively and successfully with that little amount for quite a while now. Until I get some absolutely irresistible urge to go out and buy more memory, I'd rather allocate those re$ources to more hard drive space, more/better vidcams, mics, etc. That's my need. You get what you need . . . if your need is memory, so be it.

(If 128 is just fine, then why do I use 1GB and tons of other on here are at 512MB at a minimum...)

128 fills MY needs fine. You and the others who need more memory can probably answer your question as to why you need . . . oops, USE 1gb or 512 mb at a minimum. I'm sure your FX preview is better than mine, and, you may never find it necessary to do a prerender . . . ok, I would agree. But, as an experienced VV user, I know what VV will supply as a finished crossfade, so it neither alarms nor annoys me to preview a jerky crossfade, I know that VV will render it perfectly, so it works for me, ok? Other than previewing FX, I’m unaware of any other real benefits more ram would bring to my editing experience. I don’t believe more RAM would speed up my rendering, but, I set that task up to run after bed time or during my working hours so that I’m away as rendering takes place. If it takes two hours or six for a project to render, I don’t really care. If I were paying hourly for system time or manpower, rendering time would take on added importance, but that’s not the case in my situation.

These are PC's we're working with, as in PERSONAL computers. That means that you aren't wrong to opt for 1gb of RAM if it suits you, and I'm not wrong if I can get my tasks completed using only 128MB. It's a personal preference. Does it bother you so much that I am comfortable with only 128 mb of RAM? If so, why? Do I need to run out and buy more RAM to "use" just because you and a ton of others here do so?

As for my advice to the original poster, that's also my personal advice based on my PERSONAL experience. . . and it's offered to the original poster (Mickey) for him to accept or ignore . . . Cuz, you shouldn't take it so personally.

Mickey queried us as to how to fix his problem. Like you, I'm just trying to help, OK? . . . and I'd rather see him get his problem fixed without spending a lot of money on stuff that, while it might be nice to have, won't really affect the outcome of his problem, one way or the other.

And, Mickey, for what it’s worth, I stand by my original post. I think your system is fine for what you want to do, and, if you are really tight on re$ources, I’d buy a new disk BEFORE I spent hard-to-come-by dollars on additional memory. Even if your system is working flawlessly, you don’t presently have enough disk space to complete more than a short project.

It was not my intention to rant, and, I apologize to everyone if I did so. Happy editing to both Cuz and Mickey

Caruso

My hard drive doesn't have a real lot of space on it.
I recently completed a 13 1/2 minute video and that was pushing the hard drive space to the limit. I plan to do a 20-30 minute video soon. So, it seems that I may need to invest in a new hard drive anyway.
I have tried closing all applications that aren't needed previously, but this did not work either.
It helped a little, but I still had short freezes every now and then.

Caruso,

It is also not my intention to rant or get personal with this.

I am sticking with my WinME statement. It does not belong in these forums or any sentence for any kind of DAW/Audio/Video/support. Period.

As far as system resources on your machine, I am not going to educate you on Task Manager in this thread...

Finally - this thread is a classic example of just not knowing too much about

a) Dad's computer
b) The intent with the software on this computer.

This poster is obviously in a much different league that I. I merely stated that it is obvious that this configuration is in dire need of upgrade. ASAP. No amount of tweaking (and personal experience sharing) is going to make this situation any better. I recognized this a long while ago with this thread (just like everyone else did).

I use my SF apps in a totally different (professional - commercial) environment. I only know (and work with) high end configurations in professional contexts. In these cases - RAM, CPU, OS and hard disk are top of the line and I do not (and would not) attempt any kind of creative process in a restrictive environment like the original poster described. Perhaps I should have realized that earlier before getting involved in this thread.

Also - It was not my intention to rant, and, I apologize to everyone if I did so.

Cuzin B

(As far as system resources on your machine, I am not going to educate you on Task Manager in this thread...)

I didn't ask for education from you, Cuz. If you read my previous reply, you would know that I am well acquainted with TM. It's a little different in XP than in WinME and previous non-NT versions, but the basic operation is similar.

If it matters, TM on my XP system reports CPU percent of useage as I write this message at between 8-12%. I can watch it fluctuate. At most times, it sits on the 8% mark.

If XP is consuming 50% or more of my CPU resources, it is not evident through this method of measuring.

More than my need for your educating, I was stating in my previous message that I really don't care about the status of my "resources" as long as a program functions as expected to produce results that fulfill those same expectations.

VV is doing this regularly on my system.

Who could want more?

Caruso

Caruso

"I didn't ask for education from you, Cuz. If you read my previous reply, you would know that I am well acquainted with TM. It's a little different in XP than in WinME and previous non-NT versions, but the basic operation is similar."

Obviously you are not educated in the use of TM since WinME and previous Non NT versions do not have Task Manager. Task Manager is a NT/XP only applet. And it's looks like you cannot read it anyway...In the previous thread - I did not say that XP was consuming 50% of your CPU - I said 50% of your RAM. If you have 50% of your CPU gone - you wouldn't be doing anything in the way fulfilling expectations.

You need to read my friend. Again - this whole thread is not about YOUR resources and what YOU can accomplish - who cares what you can accomplish - your advise and methods of "scraping by with the minimum" is not going to help our original poster anyway. He is already hurting bad enough and has probably given up on this anyway.

Bottom line here pal - if anyone is serious about their recording craft - be video, audio or whatever, they will get on the stick and buy some decent gear instead of waffling around in these forums trying to make Dad's computer stand up to today's software/hardware challenges with 1997 technology.

Cuzin B

Cuz,
Granted there is no applet in the non-NT/XP MS OS's, but a similar, if much less comprehensive function of TM is in those programs, whether the applet or nomenclature is there or not. XP's TM can be reached by the same method that one reaches its less comprehensive forerunners in those other OS's. Touche to you on the CPU/RAM buisness. You were right, I was wrong.

On the other hand, I say again, if my programs are functioning, then, the status of my system resources is of little concern to me.

Who cares about my system's performance? Perhaps its performance (and what I can accomplish using it ) will serve as a point of reference to the (obviously) young man with limited resources who wants to get the most out of his limited system, who wants to spend what money becomes available to him (from his dad, his allowance, his work, wherever) first on whatever he needs to solve a specific problem he's having working with video on the system that is available to him. Your contention that a machine with only 128 megs of RAM is inadequate for producing good video simply doesn't hold water.

It's easy to diss his system and his OS, but, while his symptoms might be cured in the course of following your advise, your advise hardly solves HIS problem, becuase your proposed solution is not available to him because he can't afford it now. I don't hear him stating that he wants to be a "professional" like you, he just wants to eliminate his problem as efficiently and inexpensively as possible. I can't see how that reflects on his seriousness or lack of same for his craft, nor does he even need to be serious or declare video "his craft" to ask for help with his system here.

With regard to my comments about what I can accomplish, I offered specifics about my system to illustrate to him that good video can be produced on a system with 128 megs of RAM. Further, while XP is more stable, I'm sure there are plenty of folks using ME with VV and producing good results . . . they don't have to be professionals, mind you, and I won't argue with you that XP (even NT) is more stable than ME . . . but good video is possible with all the OS's SF approves for use with its software.

I pose this question to you, Cuz . . . put yourself in the original poster's shoes (at least, this is where I think his feet are) for a minute. You have limited funds, 128 MB RAM, 20 gig HD, Windows ME, and resources to purchase VV30 (or some other video editor) and an upgrade/enhancement to just one of the three items above (RAM, storage, OS), and your present video efforts are a bit shaky. Just for argument's sake, assume that scenario, and, tell me which of the three system enhancements/upgrades would be your first priority?

IMHO, this BBS is just a friendly place where folks from all walks (and "professions") who have an interest in video (professional or otherwise) come to offer/solicit advice.

It's not a proving grounds, so, there's no need for me (or you) to validate my (your) professionalism. As I've stated before, my system is working fine, it serves my present needs (professional and otherwise). Whether you deem it (or my familiarity with it) adequte is of little concern, and of no help to the original poster in solving his problem.

My computer experience dates back to the TI994a days. It has always been a hobby for me, and, I've tinkered with Apples and clones ever since, inside and out. The experience picked up has proven invaluable to me over the course of several careers. Professional or not, Cuz, what I've learned about video (as it relates to computers, and esp. VV), has saved my hide and proven profitable to me on more than one occasion.

I have enjoyed this little exchange of ours, and I aim to come away a little smarter than before. I also hope that, in the process, one of us, both of us, or someone else, manages to offer the young man who started this thread that bit of information that solves his problem within his budget.

Have a great day, and thanks for your reply.

C

C,

Here is what this post is all about - right from our original poster -

"I need to fix this problem before I upgrade my software, and it is really bugging me at the moment. Please help!!!

Specs:
128MB RAM
600MHz CPU
20GB Hard Drive "

BIG emphasis on the "before I upgrade my software" part. This is all that I saw and in order to "help out" bad or good - he was asking how to fix this problem. There are 2 methods of fixing this - one with no gain at all (wiping disk, tweaking and replacing nothing) or following just a bit of advise for most of us in here and upgrading this box to something that would get some obvious gains.

The point is - while most of us are trying to assist with guaranteed methods of improving the situation, you continue to rail on about how what he has is just fine and how with a 1997 hardware config and little TLC, he might be able to get something done - and ya know we haven't even got to the bottom of the real problem - this user wants to upgrade his software on top of all of this! With this gear!

Now as requested - let me put myself in the original posters shoes - I would be smart enough to first ask myself a few questions -

1. Am I really serious about video editing or am I just pissing around until something else catches my fancy? Hmmm - I must be getting serious since I bought a quality product from SF...so...

2. If I am serious, do I really want to get something done or do I wanna test the waters with Dad's 128 MB word processing marvel over here....?

3. Okay - I have decided I am serious and I want get something down so I will let Dad keep the word processing machine as is and I will research a quality system that will serve my needs for now and 2 years from now and buy it so I don't have any issues with my craft.

I went through this time and time again from my youth to today with a variety of things from computers to stereos...to bikes to skateboards...If you want to satisfy your need to create, to ride, to listen - only you can change the situation by applying a little logic and unfortunately - some cash.

Personally - I would be embarassed to come into these forums and start advertising this kind hardware and expect a valid response - instead I would do my homework, save my cash and get something that works - then come in here and ask questions about how to get better at my craft instead of worrying about gear that doesn't work.

Carouso - you are correct - these forums are not proving grounds and I would hope that our poster gets past this issue so they can get on with their hobby/profession. I too have enjoyed this exchange and I don't need to come away any smarter than before - I already know that the answer to this problem is not rocket science and it is not about being prudent with limited funds.

Obviously - I can't help the fact that our poster has limited funds - those are the breaks - in this vocation - either you are in or or you are out - but he asked what to do and we told him. Don't be too upset when our friend actually saves some cash, upgrades his machine and comes back here triumphant with his editing. There is only one road to travel when your machine runs out of steam - and your advise to hang with what you have is not it.

Cuzin B

I don’t think anyone in here would deny that doing your research, and having the right equipment (in that order) is a recipe for success. Problem is, that’s the ideal. Fact is, people learn through trial and error. If it weren’t for the “problems” I’ve had trying to get Vegas do what I want, I wouldn’t have anywhere near the knowledge I have today about how all this stuff works. And, admittedly, I still have a long way to go. That’s why I regularly read this forum.

Putting myself in the poster's shoes, as you did, here’s what I’d say:

“1. Am I really serious about video editing or am I just pissing around until something else catches my fancy? Hmmm - I must be getting serious since I bought a quality product from SF...”

Am I serious about video editing? Sure I am – I must be if I’m exploring it in the first place. Do I want to build a career or business around it? Hey, I’m a kid, I don’t know these things yet. But this stuff sure is cool – and I know I can do a bunch of neat things with it…

“2. If I am serious, do I really want to get something done or do I wanna test the waters with Dad's 128 MB word processing marvel over here....?”

I’m going to use whatever equipment I have access to and try to see if it will work – at this point, I have no other choice. And because I have never done this before, I have no other frame of reference. You may call this “pissing around” – I call it learning something new and exciting.

“3. Okay - I have decided I am serious and I want get something down so I will let Dad keep the word processing machine as is and I will research a quality system that will serve my needs for now and 2 years from now and buy it so I don't have any issues with my craft.”

…and if I work hard and save up my allowance I should have enough money to do it in, say five years… I guess I’ll find a different hobby in the meantime. Oh well, too bad, it sure seemed like a lot of fun…

“Personally - I would be embarassed to come into these forums and start advertising this kind hardware and expect a valid response - instead I would do my homework, save my cash and get something that works - then come in here and ask questions about how to get better at my craft instead of worrying about gear that doesn't work.”

Part of that “homework” is posting a question in this forum!! Your logic is the same as someone wanting to learn to fly, but not being allowed to do so unless they buy an airplane first.

When I posted a few weeks ago about my track-lag problem, your reply about how I “compromised” my machine with my choice of sound card DID make me embarrassed. But in the end, your “advice,” which flatly stated, “The Soundblaster simply cannot handle this kind of action (despite what others will tell you),” was wrong. Thankfully, someone in here was familiar with this equipment, and knew its strengths and weaknesses. A simple recommendation to change one parameter in Vegas literally fixed everything. It worked, despite your assertions to the contrary, it didn't cost me one red cent, and I’ve been having a ball with my equipment ever since. Isn’t that what these forums are all about?

You are 100% correct that you need to do your research and equip yourself appropriately for what you’re attempting to do. Part of that research can be asking questions in these forums. You seem to know what you are talking about when it comes to hardware and software in a multi-media environment, and answering people's questions means you're willing to impart that knowledge to them. But attacking the recommendations and advice of others doesn't help anyone, especially when your advice is to throw away what you have and start over the “right” way. It’s obvious that this isn’t an option for our poster; therefore, it doesn’t help him. He most likely started like I did: a friend or acquaintance showed him what was possible, and then he tried it himself. As he learned, he recognized that his equipment couldn’t do what he wanted it to do. Part of that learning process was recognizing that there are resources like this forum that can help.

Caruso may not know everything you know, CuzinB, but at the very least he’s willing to help this young man by offering some simple and relatively inexpensive things he could try. From what I’ve read in here, you don’t do that. I'm glad someone in here actually believed I could do something with the money I'd already spent (like Caruso does in this thread) and offered something to try, because the advice actually worked. And at the end of the day, I LEARNED something. Do I know I need something better than my current set-up to produce a better end product? Sure. But now, at least, I know WHY, which in turn, leaves me a heck of a lot better educated on how and what will do that in the end. If I'd taken your posts to heart, I probably would have just have given up since I can’t afford your advice at the moment. Is that the message we want to give to young people who are trying to expand their creative horizons?

momo,

Fair enough and well written. I agree with you a 100%. I don't know everything about this business. I am not independantly wealthy. I saved my cash and scraped together everything I could to get my rig going (which of course is never done).

If our poster can make his rig work - then cool. If he can't then he will be back here is no time looking for the next workaround. It may seem like I am attacking certain viewpoints but how much good are we really doing for anyone by saying "yeah - don't chanage a thing. Don't add RAM. Bigger hard drive - No that 20 gigger is just fine....There is no reason that this machine can't work just fine the way it is".

I know that I COULD make this machine work. I COULD spend 2 weeks tweaking it and massaging it and yes - it might work but then again it might not - so is that the answer? Is our original poster capable of calling up the requisite technical expertise to get this working? Does he want to. Or does he just want to get back to creating something.

Also - our poster obviously has decided that editing is for him and he is making some moves. And this thread is not about expanding creative horizons - I love to see folks expand their horizons - But this thread is about hardware issues. Plain and simple.

Also - I find it oddly disturbing that nary a single SF rep gets involved in these kinds of discussions. I would almost bet their response would be - Upgrade. And Enjoy. Do you think that SF is sitting around in the lab working on Vegas 3.0b on a 20 GB, 128MB Windows ME box just to make sure it works? I seriously doubt it.

However - my viewpoints are my own and I am not going to apologize for trying to make him enjoy his editing experience a little more by offering advise on upgrading certain pieces of hardware.(and software)

Cuzin B

Also - In case anybody even noticed - not once did this original poster even allude to the fact that he is a registered user of any SF products. There was one quick blurb about upgrading to Vegas but as far as I can see, this user doesn't even have any SF product.(Yet) This is a Sonic Foundry software forum isn't it?

Cuzin B

Momo: You've got my point, exactly. Thanks for restating it so eloquently.

Cuz: This is a help forum, why so argumentative?

I said earlier in this thread: ((your 20 gig drive (especially if it is your only drive) does represent a handicap to your system.))


And you write: ((It may seem like I am attacking certain viewpoints but how much good are we really doing for anyone by saying "yeah - don't chanage a thing. Don't add RAM. Bigger hard drive - No that 20 gigger is just fine....There is no reason that this machine can't work just fine the way it is".))

As you can plainly see, I did recommend a second and larger hard drive.

You write: (I know that I COULD make this machine work. I COULD spend 2 weeks tweaking it and massaging it and yes - it might work but then again it might not - so is that the answer?)

Actually, yes, that’s the answer needed at this moment. While you may have been able to scrape up enough to acquire a much more powerful system, this fellow, for reasons known only to him, can devote only limited monies to improving his system/software. Naturally, he would like to get everything working while spending as little as possible. So, if you know you could make this machine work, give him some pointers in that direction.

You write: (Is our original poster capable of calling up the requisite technical expertise to get this working? Does he want to. Or does he just want to get back to creating something.)

He has already demonstrated the motivation to post for advice here, so, I’m guessing he’ll call up whatever expertise he has and develop the rest if we give him advice he can afford to try. Whether ‘he want[s] to’ or not should be of no concern to us. He asked for help; this is a help forum; let’s give him the help he needs.

While I don’t claim to be a computer professional, in my circle of acquaintances, I’m considered (erroneously, to be sure) a guru. I didn’t take courses, and, while I’ve spent plenty over the years on equipment, I’ve never owned the absolute latest, greatest, most powerful (although I’ve never hesitated to invest as I was able in upgrades to system and software).

What I know, I’ve learned by fiddling, trial and error, and, most of all, from helpful folks like those on BBS’s similar to (if not nearly as helpful) as this one. For me, and I’m sure for many others like me, the process of getting a new, more powerful program to run on my machine is a big part of the enjoyment that keeps me interested in these things.

Here’s an off-topic example of how I tend to think (doesn’t make me better than you, it’s just the way I approach these things, and that is reflected in my replies on this thread). I own a boat trailer (and a boat, too, LOL). This spring, the lights were acting up. They lit intermittently depending on how you licked (or spat on) the plug connector (it seemed). I tried changing bulbs . . . things would seem to work for a moment, then, poof, not working. The behavior was really screwy. If you turned on the car taillights, the trailer lights would come on, but, then, if you stepped on the brakes, both would go out. If you turned on the right blinker, the right taillight would go out in favor of the blinker.

By observation, it became apparent that, while the bulbs had two filaments, all functions were using the same filament while the other remained unused. Obviously, the way it was supposed to work was that the directional lights and stoplights were supposed to use one filament, the constant taillights were supposed to use the other.

Consultants at two boat stores, two auto shops, and one U-haul all gave me the same advice: Try changing both tail light assemblies first, if that doesn’t work, change the trailer side wiring harness, if that doesn’t work, change the auto side wiring harness, and, if that doesn’t work, you need to re-wire the entire trailer because your wiring is fried.

I’ve never worked with any of this stuff before outside of changing bulbs, but, none of those suggestions really made any sense to me. The light assemblies are inexpensive ($6-$9), so I tried replacing one . . . no change. Next, I tried a new harness on the trailer (needed one anyway, because squirrels had chewed through the other several times and it was full of splices and electrical tape) . . . no change. Next, I tried hooking one of the assemblies directly to the auto side harness . . . NO CHANGE!!

Hmm, maybe the suggestions were correct after all. Could that auto side harness be bad? It looked fine, connections looked fine, and it resides inside my trunk, a relatively safe, dry place, nah, still doesn’t make sense for it to be bad.

I then tried hooking a bare bulb up to the auto side harness. That’s when I learned just how one of those bulbs is constructed. One of the two lead-colored probes on the bottom interact with the other to light one filament, and one of them interacts with the brass-colored outer casing of the base to light the other when (and only when) the base encounters the ground wire.

From there, the answer came swiftly. For some reason, the system was not grounding properly. The solution turned out to be as simple as scraping paint away from the frame to improve metal to metal contact where fastening bolts on the light assemblies contact the frame of the trailer. It was that simple. I’m guessing that, if I had taken the car and trailer into a shop, I’d have paid plenty, probably have had my entire system re-done, and still the problem would not have been solved. By that time, of course, I would have invested in considerable shop man-hours even at a reliable, 100% honest shop.

My point here (and please, excuse the length . . . congrats if you’ve read this far) is that I spent a nice spring day troubleshooting this (even if I didn’t make it to the river), and, while perplexed at times, I really enjoyed every minute of it, and, in the end, I’m all the wiser for having attained a better working knowledge of a system that many folks would never bother to investigate. I feel really good about having solved the problem, spent only about $15 in materials, and, now I know that, next time, I won’t be stumped by this problem. I don’t know why the problem chose this spring to manifest itself (the trailer is 7-years old . . . these lights are original equipment installed over the original paint, and both appeared to be in like new condition), but, that, truly, is a topic for another board (I’m going searching for that board next).

Anyhow, I approach computers in the same manner. I learned about DIP switches and cable terminators, modems and the internet, and VIDEO EDITING, in much the same manner. It would be great to take formal courses in all this stuff, have the latest, greatest hard/software, and, I truly respect folks who have completed those courses, own that stuff. It’s not where I am, and, I don’t think the original poster is there, either.

Sorry to blow on so, and excuse the off-topic example, but, I hope you better appreciate my point. Perhaps what I enjoy most about the home PC world is that there is virtually no right or wrong. Each of us uses our specific equipment in our specific way to accomplish some task that has some specific value to us, specifically.

It’s a wonderful thing.

Caruso

I don't know if I'm restating something that was already mentioned (this thread is pretty long). ;)
There is one BIG problem with tweaking and massaging his PC to get it to work. It's not HIS PC! So once he finally has it tweaked just right, what's to stop dad from modifying stuff on HIS PC?
The minimum requirements are probably acceptable, IF your PC is a dedicated DAW.


¢¢

Caruso,

I give up, man :) My eyes are hurtin'. I am not sure if Mickey will ever figure anything out on this but - I am standing by my comments. This rig simply won't make it in the long run no matter how much elbow grease is applied.

I would hope that Mickey didn't mind that we took the thread over for our long winded discussions. I apologize for my part in that. Peace and thread closed.

Cuzin B

Good point, Myst, but, if, as I suspect, his problem is something simple, like a mouse driver, Dad has no reason to ever change things back (probably won't even notice the difference). I use one of the HP all-in-one laser printer-fax-copier-scanner machines in my system that uses particularly insidious software. It’s a great machine, but, that software interferes with many of my other programs. I know that, so, it’s no trouble to make certain that driver isn’t loaded to avoid problems with the programs that don't get along with it.

He could also set up two different users on the machine (I forget how WinME refers to that feature - profiles or some such nomenclature). That way, the machine, when started, can be instructed to load his dad's tweaks or his.

Cuz, you may have the latest, greatest, and, in your opinion, the most knowledge about computers. Your pronouncement that this thread is closed, however, carries absolutely no weight whatsoever. Your choice in the matter is pretty much limited to participating or not (just like the rest of us).

I, for one, hope the originator of this thread continues to read and post here, because I would very much like to see him succeed in getting his system working so that he can use it to create some meaningful video footage, now, until he is in position to get something more powerful. Mickey, are you there?

Caruso

Caruso,

I was simply trying to explain that you and I have completely taken over this thread, it's way too longwinded for any sane person to try to wade through and I tried to apologize for my part in this. Now you wanna start it all up again by picking another fight?

Actually - that seems to be your style as I remember. Just look at this thread - way back at the top - Item 5 - Mickey asked me directly about OS/hardware etc. Item 6 - I gave an honest (and I felt - informed) response. Item 7 - Then you jump and start picking me apart. Why didn't you just stay focused on the thread? Why do you even care what I have to say - it's not your thread, is it? Did Mickey say - "Cuzin B just hurt my feelings - someone please jump in and rip him up a bit!" Mickey is the only one who should care (or not) - whether he/she takes my advise.

Peace means peace - as in - I am done with this thread. Is this too difficult for you to understand?

Cuzin B