TheHappyFriar wrote on 9/1/2011, 10:32 AM
Numbers that divide evenly in to the frame rate help because then it's an even division (ie 24fps played back at .5 = 12fps, 24fps played back at .864 = 20.736fps, something has got to give somewhere then).

I never drag randomly though, I do it intently. Basically figure out how fast you want it to play (ie 12fps playback from a 24fps footage) then divide the playback fps / the current fps = decimal number to use.
JHendrix wrote on 9/1/2011, 11:03 AM
how would that work if the frame rate of the clip and project are different?
TheHappyFriar wrote on 9/1/2011, 12:09 PM
Same way. I would try my darnedest to make sure the footage framerate fits nicely in to the project framerate.
Chienworks wrote on 9/1/2011, 4:14 PM
What probably matters much more than the actual frame rate is whether you enable or disable resampling.
TheHappyFriar wrote on 9/1/2011, 4:54 PM
If the framerate of the slowdown goes evenly in to the event then it will make some faddish-frames inbetweens with resampling enabled. If you disabled it you'll get what can look like random jumping because it's rounding a decimal to a whole number (the frame #).

But I agree. :) I just don't think we're at that stage in yet.
JHendrix wrote on 9/1/2011, 5:38 PM
well in this case the footage is 30p but the project is 60i because some other P2 footage was wrongly shot at 24PN...
TheHappyFriar wrote on 9/1/2011, 8:07 PM
What's 24PN?

If all footage is progressive then the project should be in a progressive setting.
musicvid10 wrote on 9/1/2011, 8:43 PM

24PA and 24PN are valid Panasonic pulldown formats. Suggest you do a google . . .
TheHappyFriar wrote on 9/1/2011, 10:34 PM
If someone wants an answer to a question then post all the relevant information not tidbits. 30p & 24p on a 60i timeline was useful. I'm trying to help and asked a question.

Google also says that 24PN is a non-pulldown format & used for progressive at true 24 progressive frames per second on a p2 card because it's not firewire compatible, not like the (wrongly labled) 24P move which is 60fps with frames repeated to only have 24 unique frames per second but is firewire compatible. So who's wrong, you or google? Either way that means your comment was useless and google didn't help one of us.

That would mean his project settings are wrong either way as all his footage is progressive. Both BD & HDTV spec support 24p with HD so setting a 60i project setting won't help things. Streaming or playing on a computer would be better in progressive. The issue is getting his stuff to all be one format.

Might just be easier to play one of them on an HDTV/monitor & rerecord it on a camera (with the settings you want) pointing at the TV.
musicvid10 wrote on 9/1/2011, 10:39 PM
"24p(n) on the other hand lets you edit in a 60i timeline without doing any pulldown removal or you could still go to a 24fps timeline but pulldown removal is a lot trickier since you have an AA BB BC CD DD field pattern to convert. Playback looks smoother but you can see that because the pulldown for 24p(n) is 2:3 rather than the 2:3:3:2 of 24pa C frame is split across even field of frame 3 and odd field of frame 4 making certain frame accurate cuts a potential issue. "

That's from and the reply from jhendrix makes complete sense in that context.

JHendrix wrote on 9/2/2011, 7:56 AM
yes the choice to use 60i was after much research and the determination that 24PN and 30P would both best co-exist in a 60i project. but of course it is not what we would have wanted, but it seems to work. we wanted all 30p. shooting the screen is a pretty good idea but we are a bit late in the editing phase now. just get tricky doing the mental math in situations like the stretching question
kairosmatt wrote on 9/2/2011, 9:38 AM
P2 user here:

24p: 3:2 pulldown
24pA: 2:3:3:2 pulldown
24pN: no pulldown, pure 24p, no 60i

It sounds like you want everything to playback in realtime regardless of the recorded framerate?

In that case do not slow or speed anything up would be my suggestion.

30p will do just fine on a 60i timeline.

24pN you have two choices:
1. Disable resample, in which case Vegas will repeat the 3rd frame (or 4th, I did a test a while back and can't remember).
2. Let Vegas blend and interpolate frames and fields.
I personally prefer the 1st method.

Of course, you could disable resample and set the playback to 1.25 to keep the frames from repeating or being interpolated, but it would be slightly faster.


JHendrix wrote on 9/2/2011, 10:20 AM
thanks you for the clarification

that is what i did - 30p and 24PN on a 60i timeline.Disable resample

and yes, Disable resample was key in making it work.

but when you say "In that case do not slow or speed anything up would be my suggestion."

do you mean even with the way I have the project set up, don't slow or speed anything up? or do you mean only the 24PN ?

kairosmatt wrote on 9/2/2011, 2:52 PM
I mean leave ALL the media's playback rate at 1.

Changing the playback rate changes the speed of the action inside the clip, creating a slow mo or time-lapse effect depending on whether the number is smaller or larger than 1. So if you're going for realtime leave them at 1.

24p and 30p will both do fine in a 60i project. (24p in a 30p or vice versa can have some weird results I've found). Of course, clips shot with different framerates will have different 'feels' and by this method pretty much preserves that.

JHendrix wrote on 9/2/2011, 3:28 PM
I got ya, thanks again for the clarification.

i does seem to me though that the 30p could use altered playback rates in the 60i timeline but I assume the 24PN would have issues, does that make sense?
kairosmatt wrote on 9/3/2011, 7:49 AM
What kind of issues are you seeing? 30p in 60i should see no problems at all, they are the same framerate (29.97 fps, just whole frame or interlaced). The 60i project will take each 30p frame and split them in two to create each field.

Is it a playback from the timeline issue or is it viewing the rendered file as well? 24p on a 60i timeline will not playback as well, but it will render fine.

What framerate are you rendering to and what are you using to view it?

If its TV and 60i, everything should be good to go.

JHendrix wrote on 9/3/2011, 10:26 AM
I am not experiencing viewing problems and my test renders have proven to be OK even though not as good as if it were shot right.

what I am wondering about in this thread is just the effect of slowing down the playback rate in this particular project, given its odd ball nature.

I am planning to export as 60i for DVD and as 30p for the web.

kairosmatt wrote on 9/4/2011, 7:45 AM

If you got the results you need already, but have the time and are still curious, play around with it. Try turning resample on and off. Try setting the 24p footage to .635
( 30/(24*2) ).

I think you will find that slowing down 24p on a 30 timeline will have the weakest results: ghosting and other artifacts. 30p slowed down on a 24 timeline would be better.

JHendrix wrote on 9/4/2011, 9:00 AM
"30p slowed down on a 24 timeline would be better"

but what i have is 30P on a 60i timeline, correct?
kairosmatt wrote on 9/4/2011, 10:53 AM
Strictly speaking, they have the same frame rate. All Vegas needs to do is split each 30p frame in half to interlace it.

Try setting the playback to .5 and make sure resample is on to see if you like it. I think the best way to do it would be to use After Effects or BorisFX or twixter or something to slow it down properly-but leave it in 30p. Then once you have that file bring it in to Vegas and interlace at the last step.

JHendrix wrote on 9/4/2011, 1:48 PM
Good tip, thanks...i'll also look at AE