Thanks for the input farss!

I tried changing the project render quality setting from good to preview.
No change I´m afraid. However the dynamic preview setting were at 0 so
changing that to 800 helped a lot the second and third time playing the timeline.

Thank´s for that tip. However I´m still concerned about performance
the first time playing the timeline. What kind of results do you get?
How much can you stagger up on the timline before it start dropping frames?

Set video preview window to 1/2 size (360x288), preview quality to "Preview [Auto]", and make sure the project iteslf is set to PAL. Project render quality can remain as Good.

If you are doing that you should get decent previews. Ram preview (which you are doing) also helps.

The wonderful thing about Vegas is you get to see exactly what your effects look like on the TV, even if at a considerably reduced frame-rate. This way you can do accurate color-correction and know exactly how your FX will appear without having to render.

Believe me, you'll get used to it. Just use your computer monitor to view the video when timing of effects and cuts is critical by reducing the window size until the frame-rate approaches 29.97 (use draft if you have to). Use the TV to see (at a reduced frame-rate) color-corrected video and the results of your FX.

The real-time preview is there so that when you finally render there are no surprises (like, "It looked great on the computer monitor, but when I play it to TV the colors are off!").

Hmmm.... I checked all the settings and they all match what you´re saying. What I really want to know is, given the computer I have, if this is what I can expect in terms of realtime performance.
Or should I expect more?
By the way, what is "decent previews"? Is what I described in my first post decent? I know what to expect from Xpress DV but not from Vegas. Really, I´m not criticising Vegas, I just want to know...
Is there noone out there who has the same computer as me? Or at least the same specs?

I know! That is one of my favourite things with Vegas! Like I love it when you type in text and it comes up on your tv in realtime. Its a beauty.
It´s not like I´m going to stop using Vegas because of the poor realtime performance, compared to some other NLE:s, (if that´s the case) I just want to know if there´s something wrong with my system.

My PC is a tad shy of your specs (P4, 1.6 Ghz, 300+ RAM) - I have fantastic realtime playback with FX added. When there is a bunch of stuff I'm trying to do - Dynamic RAM preview works like a charm.

Other than that....you will need to tweak your setting to best suit your taste - but it works just fine.

Can you do what I described in my first post without framedrops?

I work in PAL so this may not help a lot because VV would have to render less frames, but my system is about the same specs as yours. even a simple dissolve will drop frames first time through so I don't think you've got anything wrong.

As others have said if you realy want to chek whats happening just loop the area and let it run a few times to let the RAM preview build.

I wonder how much the latest P4s with a faster memory bus would help with this.

Here's a thought though, as this sort of question seems to crop up all the time.

How about someone (SoFo?) puts up some sample projects as benchmarks. I realise they couldn't cover more than 1% of the possible combinations of hardware but they could still serve as a useful guide just so you could know things were in the right ball park, usually if things are wrong with a PC they will be way wrong.

I have lessperforming system(1G with 256RAM PC133).I have no problem with realtime.
I found that preview window if set too small does display effect of fragmentation, but when rendered it show no drop frames. I have captured video from TV (madonna concert). Had to spilt the video each about 6min. I did expected some fromes drop because of my system, but the final project was perfect.It did took me a quite a long time to render. I expected some sync problems, but did not encounter one.
While in preview window I saw some like frames drop the final was fine.
I am using win200pro and will stick to it for a quite time.
I just wonder what kind of video card are you have.

It´s a Radeon 7000 Series.

farss....do you really get dropframes on a dissolve the first time you play it?
Not even I have that bad performance....hmmm...
By the way; youre not alone in the PAL world....there´s two of us! :)
(feels really lonely sometimes in the forums)

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the effects in ExpressDV not realtime? If they have to be rendered then you are not comparing like with like. Try prerendering the sections in Vegas.

I am on Pal as well and I have a Athlon 1.4 with 768 Ram and Win XP Pro and I get no dropped frames at all.... but my problem is I can't pretender anything ...

Flack

I've got XP on a 1.7GHz pentium, 640MB ram.
I get "dropped frames" when previewing all the time - I don't really see it as a problem. If I don't have any effects applied, then its 30fps, but as soon as I apply anything, or use dissolves, etc..., the frame rate drops. Not a big deal, if I need it at 30fps I just shrink the window, and/or use draft quality.

It wouldn't be unusual for me to have only 1fps if there are several Fx applied and I'm previewing at full size, "preview quality".

Sven

Whether or not your machine is performing at its peak or close - the real question is whether the realtime previews are allowing you to make editing decisions ok.
If the decision involves spatial placement of visual elements, this can be done even at 4 or 5 fps, but obviously if timing of visual or audio elements is the issue, it's better to have more, but even then I have often made decisions with 12 to 15 fps showing. If more precision is required then Ram preview is available.

Yes I know. It´s just that if you just bought a Porsche, wouldn´t you want to know why it can´t go faster than 70 km/h? Does everyone elses Porsches also just run in 70 km/h?

I can accept how my computer performs with Vegas if it is close to what everyone else is getting, but if it is below..... then something is wrong with my setup. Maybe it is something simple like just pushing the pedal harder....

Anyway, I like Vegas for it´s tools, freedom of use and even its controversial interface and I will continue to use it, but if this is how fast it can go...... I would say that as far as realtime performance goes, a few other sports cars just passed it on the highway.

You got a Porsche that only goes 40 MPH? Amazing.

Seriously... you aren't the first to get hung up on 'real time previews' Many articles have been posted on this topic. Not that long ago Sonic EPM posted a very detailed explaination of how you can test if or not it is working as it should.

To me its a none issue. And NOBODY is more fussy than I am. NOBODY! To begin with what you should be mainly using your extenal monitor to check levels and hue. Not watch and say to yourself isn't that pretty when viewing transitions or special effects, that due to limitaitons of your CPU NO MATTER HOW FAST IT IS simply can't keep up with the demands to both apply the changes you requested and also display at your project's frame rate. Something has to give, and its a frame gets dropped here and there making the preview look "jerky" at times. It has no effect on the rendered project.

Why are you seemingly obsessed with seeing "real time" playback on your extenal monitor? Its a sign you don't trust what you did editing wise or that you still don't know how to do it. That passes with time.

Your performance is about normal. You can not compare it to "Real TIme" in Avid. If you do a selective prerender then you are apples for apples with Avid and then it is full bore speed. Remeber that you are seeing a non rendered preview with the first pass with Vegas. That is something few NLE's <$10,000 can do. The exception is one that has extensive hardware support, but that is hard to carry on a laptop in the field.

To answer you first question, no, your machine is not screwed up. 15-18 fps on the first pass with that much on the line and no pre-render is good performace if the filters are heavy. While you may feel that Avid's 'real time' is better, remember what is displayed during that real time is not the same as what Vegas is delivering. Picking an NLE is about finding one that delivers what YOU want. No NLE will deliver what everyone wants.

Keith

No, no, no! I´m not talking about external preview. Only the preview on the CRT.
Of course I cannot get full fps out the dv port, I know that. But, given the computer I have, don´t you think I should be able to get full fps on the CRT with the timeline I described in the first post? It´s really only 2 streams; 1 Pip with some cc beneath a graphic key. Can you get full fps with that?

I feel I´m not really making myself understood here... please bare with me.... I thought my last post would hit the nail.... :)

Slightly different spin, but the same answer. No CPU is fast enough. You're thinking "only" a picture in picture and some color correction. That actaully is a LOT of work you're asking your CPU to do and then generate an in synch video and audio steam at the same time at between 24-30 frames a second. You're moving a lot of pixels around and/or changing them something has got to give.

Sven,

I would expect better performance from your computer. I'm using a virtual antique - a 450 mhz PIII with 256 megs of PC100 memory and I get acceptable preview framerates using five video tracks, three audio tracks, titles, pan-crop, track motion, color correction, and transitions. Very rarely do I have to resort to the "draft" preview mode.

By "acceptable", I mean 16 frames per second or better. I look at the stuation thus. If I can't render in real-time, I don't expect to preview in real-time. And, I don't think that any of the currrent generation of processors is capable of rendering in real-time.

JackHughs

The whole point is to preview your effect. Don't expect it to be good enough to print to tape without rendering. Use draft mode to check the movement of things and use good or best to check colors and crispness. Generally if you use the preview setting you should get great results when a few fx are applied. It works great on my little 450mhz computer. It works swell for what i got. I can even watch it on my camcorder LCD on preview mode with one or two fx. Just my 2 cents!