I'm gonna leave the stuff I wrote up there ..

Well yes .. We had this sometime back that Markers [ presumably Regons too ] wouldn't Ripple with the move clip. I lost the plot on this one, but there was this issue before - movingf a clip and the Markers just stayed put! - There IS a logic for this .. . but for the life of me I can't remember .. I'll need to refresh my memory with a quick Search I think .. .

.. Grazie

Markers can be made to move with the clip if you select that option in ripple edit. Let me try to explain the issue a little better.
A region consists of two points, consider then as maybe 'in' and 'out'
Now I have two regions marked out on the TL.
I cut in the middle of the second on and trim at the cut. I'd expect the 'out' point of the second region to move with the event which it does, no problemo. Except the 'In' point, which is Pre the cut moves as well!
Now as I said maybe I've missed something, but surely if I say I want a region to start at TC x and end at TC y and I I cut something out of the middle, between those two points then I'd want the In and Out points to stay the same i.e. the region starts and ends at the same place, I just want to remove a bit in the middle. I cannot grasp a situation where you would want what I'm seeing to happen.

In the past I;ve used Markers for this, just felt Regions seemed a more intuitive way to lay things out, a region can be named 'Track 01' whereas for Markers to have the project make sense you might want to label two markers, Start Track 01 and End Track 02.

Think I'll sleep on this!


Bob.

This is interesting. I wonder if this is a bug or if there is a good reason for this. I've never used regions, only markers, so I haven't had this firsthand. It does seem counterintuitive.

P.E.R refers to, as I understand it, rippling after you are done editing, not rippling after the edit point. Post Edit Ripple is in contrast to just normal Ripple, which is what occurs if you have ripple activated and cut or add something. But if you edit with ripple off, you can also perform Post-Edit Ripple, which means go back and ripple it just as if I had thought to turn on ripple before I made the edit.

Both regular ripple and PER are powerful tools but dangerous... you have to watch carefully as they sometimes don't do what you expect. You have to make sure you set your edit mode to be the one that makes sense for what you want to accomplish(just track, all tracks, or everything). In some cases I find it easier to zoom out, select everything after the cut, and drag into place. But I don't think this effects markers, so if you really want to pull in EVERYTHING (as in your case), it might be a good idea.

Of course, your region behavior is still a mystery to me though...

-Jayson

I think this may be to do with grouping. Try clicking the "ignor grouping button" or ungroup or group the tracks. A good practise if uncertain of the results is to turn ripple off and move the first event. Then if ok turn ripple on and move the events that follow.

The complaints about ripple edits go back to version 2. It has never been intuitive (most of Vegas isn't) and I have resorted to dragging edits together despite the creation of holes and odd frames.
This is yet another reason I didn't upgrade this time. They never fixed long standing complaints about lots of things. I did want to buy DVDA 2.0, but that wasn't possible and as it turns out it wasn't an earth shattering improvement.
For now I have learned how to get around most of the quirks in Vegas 2, 3, and 4 so I'll stick with Vegas 4. And I rather like DVDA 1.0 now.

I thought Ripple in its present form arrived with Vesion 4.

I use Post Edit Ripple all the time and consider it a fabulously well designed feature.

I tried replicating your problem, Bob, but when I shortened or removed an event from within a Timeline Region, then Rippled, the right hand end of the Region moved left but the left hand end stayed put - which is exactly the behaviour you were hoping for, I think.

There must be a setting or set up difference somewhere, but I'm not sure where. Are you sure the Event you removed began AFTER the left hand region marker?

Oh - and I think the flags looking "empty" indicates the currently highlighted region.

P.S. It's amazing how busy this forum has become - same day posts such as this were on Page 2 already (25 posts per page setting)

I have been very critical of ripple edit which is broken, but only in versions 4 an 5.

Ripple did not exist in 3 or under.

You could have used select events to end in the old days, but only on one track.

Proper ripple ala Premiere or Final Cut has not yet arrived to Vegas in a bug free environment. Apparently, to get a simple and basic problem solved in this program will take much pushing and shouting,,,, and so I will.

SONY, RIPPLE IS NOT WORKING AS IT SHOULD AT THIS MATURITY.

Please fix it.

Thank you.

For those of you who do not know, here is the link:

mvweb.com/vegas/ripple.veg

"Move event one to 15 seconds using ripple edit"


Here is a reply I got on Creative Cow from Peter Wright;
Sorry Stephen - I've been reading "Events" and thinking Tracks. I don't think of event fades as envelopes - just realised what you were describng.

I can now confirm that the EVENT fades up and down disappear as described. This is in latest V5 too.

It's a bug.


Peter Wright
Perth, Western Oz
www.allroundvision.com.au

For those of whom are still reading, Vegas bugs are apparently solved via public pressure, not reality. At first, this problem was not declared as a bug, which is how it morphed in to version 5. The reality is that this was a bug that was not shouted down enough and therefore survived to version 5.

The problem is that this problem is so basic, it is embarrasing. Either that or the designers just don't get it. There is no other option.

Yes, the business with the fades up and down disappearing after Ripple if a prior event is moved to cover the fades before rippling is a strange one, but I don't think this is the same as saying Ripple is broken or not working.

Until it's fixed, you can move the event beyond that point, ripple, then move it back and ripple, to preserve the fades as they were.

I had never struck this situation before, and I'd be surprised if it wasn't fixed ....

Here's what was wrong.
The 'In' and 'Out' points for the region were Grouped "both flags were empty"!

Select Ignore Event Grouping and the problem she goes away. Yeah gods, what a trap, good thing I noticed it.

Which only leaves me with one minor problem but I'm sure I'll nut this one out, how to Ungoup all regions. I can change to group another set of region in/out point but cannot see a way to degroup all of them. Ingnore Event Grouping will get me out of the pickle for the time being but now that I've 'discovered' Regions I really want to know all there is to know.

Ah well, VASST hits town in a week, good to have lots of questions to ask.

Thanks to all who took the time to reply. It seems to me regions are not in common use, they look very useful so maybe they need a bit more coverage.

Bob.

Hi Peter-

I respectfully disagree. It is a bug that should not have survived this far.

I process tapes and teach people for a public access television station. I do point out this problem to students because I feel it is necessary to do so, almost universally it is asked why is it not fixed and why this is an issue.

You personally know about the issue now. Should the problem survive 2 complete generations, versions 4 and 5? Am I crazy? Should this not be repaired at all?

I can tell you that I am still on Vegas 4 and will not purchase Vegas 5 until this issue is resolved. For me it is so basic that it is embarrasing.

Swarrine,
you're right, they've known about it since V4. When it was pointed out to them the comment was something like "I can see that'd be annoying".
It doesn't cause me that much grief but I have to agree, it would be more than annoying. I'ts just not the sort of thing that looks good when you're trying to demo the product. All the fancy widgets that got added in V5 mean nothing when the basics don't work right. I wouldn't call myself a professional editor by a long stretch but for the few that I know this is just bread and butter stuff, if such basic functionality doesn't work right everything else is simply ignored.

/end of rant/

Bob.

I think you're completely right - if this has been "officially" known about for that long it should have been fixed way back.

I'm still a big Post Edit Ripple fan, though - I've never had this situation in a project, and didn't know about it until this past week ....

I'd still get V5 though - too many nice functions to miss out on.

I thought Ripple in its present form arrived with Vesion 4.
-----------------------------
In my post I said that there have been complaints about Ripple Editing since version 2. I wasn't referring to Ripple Editing in the form it took in version 4. Just Ripple Editing. It existed with a button to select it and was present in Versions 2 and 3. It never worked right and still doesn't.

The credit rolls, the titler, the ripple editing, the ghost frames, the flash frames, the audio gaps, etc. reflect problems in the basic tools of the editing process. They need to be fixed.
We get a few updates when a new release comes out, but then they stop short of fixing long standing problems. By the end of the year a new version is in the works. At that point you know that there will be no more updates and you start praying that the next version will fix some of the quirks in the basic editing part of the software itself. Alas the new version is released and the same old problems are still there...........but the new software can edit kazoo plugins.

Wow! Where's my wallet?

John

John,
I couldn't agree more. Even the credit rolls and the titler I could forgive although it might be better if they just weren't there at all. That you can always do with another application, no loss of face doing that.
But things like Ripple Edit and A/V sync are core NLE functions.
It's a bit like a Swiss Army Knife, every year more gizmos are added, a magnifying glass, nail clippers and a torch but the 'knife' still doesn't cut butter.

Bob.