Pro Tools horrified me this week...

Dick_Withers wrote on 11/22/2000, 11:32 AM

I guess it depends on your uses, whether or not real-time digital
bounce is horrifying. The last project I did included 22 RTAS
plugins, a very high density of edits, and extensive volume, pan,
and plugin automation over 24 tracks (a lot to crunch). Being the
master pass, I needed to be able to hear it go down, and indeed,
stopped the process twice for minor tweaks.

I'm not sure what the difference is between having to listen to a
real-time "confidence" bounce, or spending 40 minutes to check
an instant bounce after the fact. Either way, you can be sure I'm
going to listen to every second before I deliver it to a client, or
even use it as a pre-dub.

DW

Charles de Montebello wrote:
>>I had an engineer work on a project for me in my other
>>studio on Pro Tools (it's the one he knows) and, to my
>>horror, when I was getting ready to bounce the hour and
>>forty minute edit I discovered that Pro Tools bounces IN
>>REAL TIME???!!!! What the hell is that? Is this the dark
>>ages? What's the point of having a fast computer?
>>Anyway, I assume not all other DAWs are like that... Well,
>>at least Vegas isn't.
>>
>>Just venting.
>>
>>Charles.

CDM wrote on 11/22/2000, 12:19 PM

I agree with checking your work, of course. But on the type of
project I'm talking about - just a lot of edits for an audiobook - I
want to be able to bouce and burn to CD so I can have a qc engineer
listen back. Wasting an hour and a half vs. 15 minutes for bounce and
burn is not my idea of time well spent in the studio... Especially if
I've ALREADY checked my work. I still need to bounce it to burn a CD.
If they had CD burning directly from the program, that would be a
different story.

Anyway, this isn't relevant to Vegas, I know, other than it
underscores Vegas' speed...

Dick_Withers wrote:
>>I guess it depends on your uses, whether or not real-time digital
>>bounce is horrifying. The last project I did included 22 RTAS
>>plugins, a very high density of edits, and extensive volume, pan,
>>and plugin automation over 24 tracks (a lot to crunch). Being the
>>master pass, I needed to be able to hear it go down, and indeed,
>>stopped the process twice for minor tweaks.
>>
>>I'm not sure what the difference is between having to listen to a
>>real-time "confidence" bounce, or spending 40 minutes to check
>>an instant bounce after the fact. Either way, you can be sure I'm
>>going to listen to every second before I deliver it to a client, or
>>even use it as a pre-dub.
>>
>>DW
>>
>>
>>
>>Charles de Montebello wrote:
>>>>I had an engineer work on a project for me in my other
>>>>studio on Pro Tools (it's the one he knows) and, to my
>>>>horror, when I was getting ready to bounce the hour and
>>>>forty minute edit I discovered that Pro Tools bounces IN
>>>>REAL TIME???!!!! What the hell is that? Is this the dark
>>>>ages? What's the point of having a fast computer?
>>>>Anyway, I assume not all other DAWs are like that... Well,
>>>>at least Vegas isn't.
>>>>
>>>>Just venting.
>>>>
>>>>Charles.

Dick_Withers wrote on 11/22/2000, 1:26 PM

I can see, in your circumstances, how that could make a
difference. Around here, like most project studios, I AM the QC
engineer (and the producer, arranger, session player,
nursemaid...). Still, I'm pretty picky about my work and probably
wouldn't leave it to someone else, if I DID have that luxury. But, to
get to the main point, I pretty much doubt that Pro tool bounces
are real-time, simply because of a technical inferiority to Vegas.

Charles de Montebello wrote:
>>I agree with checking your work, of course. But on the type of
>>project I'm talking about - just a lot of edits for an audiobook - I
>>want to be able to bouce and burn to CD so I can have a qc
engineer
>>listen back. Wasting an hour and a half vs. 15 minutes for
bounce and
>>burn is not my idea of time well spent in the studio...
Especially if
>>I've ALREADY checked my work. I still need to bounce it to
burn a CD.
>>If they had CD burning directly from the program, that would be
a
>>different story.
>>
>>Anyway, this isn't relevant to Vegas, I know, other than it
>>underscores Vegas' speed...
>>
>>Dick_Withers wrote:
>>>>I guess it depends on your uses, whether or not real-time
digital
>>>>bounce is horrifying. The last project I did included 22
RTAS
>>>>plugins, a very high density of edits, and extensive volume,
pan,
>>>>and plugin automation over 24 tracks (a lot to crunch).
Being the
>>>>master pass, I needed to be able to hear it go down, and
indeed,
>>>>stopped the process twice for minor tweaks.
>>>>
>>>>I'm not sure what the difference is between having to listen
to a
>>>>real-time "confidence" bounce, or spending 40 minutes to
check
>>>>an instant bounce after the fact. Either way, you can be sure
I'm
>>>>going to listen to every second before I deliver it to a client,
or
>>>>even use it as a pre-dub.
>>>>
>>>>DW
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Charles de Montebello wrote:
>>>>>>I had an engineer work on a project for me in my other
>>>>>>studio on Pro Tools (it's the one he knows) and, to my
>>>>>>horror, when I was getting ready to bounce the hour and
>>>>>>forty minute edit I discovered that Pro Tools bounces IN
>>>>>>REAL TIME???!!!! What the hell is that? Is this the dark
>>>>>>ages? What's the point of having a fast computer?
>>>>>>Anyway, I assume not all other DAWs are like that... Well,
>>>>>>at least Vegas isn't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Just venting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Charles.

CDM wrote on 11/22/2000, 3:49 PM

Just to clarify -
It's not so much about being picky or not picky. I understand your
point and I, myslef, couldn't be more picky about what I release from
my studio. But, it just surprised me (at the time - 1:30am -
horrified me) that there wasn't at least an option to bounce faster
than real-time. By the time I'm ready to bounce, I've already checked
my worked and in a program such as Vegas where an hour and a half
program takes about 7 minutes to bounce and another 9 minutes to burn
to CD, I have plenty of time to catch an error and re-bounce, if I
need to. If you're going to bounce in realtime, then you might as
well just capture it to a real-time cd burner or DAT. But I charge by
the hour and no client of mine is going to pay for an hour and a half
of studio time to wait for me to mix down my edit - especially when
I'm touting my studio as being state-of-the-art, fast, efficient and
all-digital.

So, in short, my argument (or point, actually) was not that Pro Tools
sucks (which I would be an idiot to state - it's a fantastic program
for most of the things I DON'T do) but more that I was shocked that
in version 5 they still don't have an option to bounce using the
speed of the processor. It means I have to teach my engineers a
different platform basically (which I'm happy to do)

This should probably be taken off line now, anyway.

thanks, Dick. :)

Dick_Withers wrote:
>>
>>I can see, in your circumstances, how that could make a
>>difference. Around here, like most project studios, I AM the QC
>>engineer (and the producer, arranger, session player,
>>nursemaid...). Still, I'm pretty picky about my work and probably
>>wouldn't leave it to someone else, if I DID have that luxury. But,
to
>>get to the main point, I pretty much doubt that Pro tool bounces
>>are real-time, simply because of a technical inferiority to Vegas.
>>
>>
>>
>>Charles de Montebello wrote:
>>>>I agree with checking your work, of course. But on the type of
>>>>project I'm talking about - just a lot of edits for an audiobook -
I
>>>>want to be able to bouce and burn to CD so I can have a qc
>>engineer
>>>>listen back. Wasting an hour and a half vs. 15 minutes for
>>bounce and
>>>>burn is not my idea of time well spent in the studio...
>>Especially if
>>>>I've ALREADY checked my work. I still need to bounce it to
>>burn a CD.
>>>>If they had CD burning directly from the program, that would be
>>a
>>>>different story.
>>>>
>>>>Anyway, this isn't relevant to Vegas, I know, other than it
>>>>underscores Vegas' speed...
>>>>
>>>>Dick_Withers wrote:
>>>>>>I guess it depends on your uses, whether or not real-time
>>digital
>>>>>>bounce is horrifying. The last project I did included 22
>>RTAS
>>>>>>plugins, a very high density of edits, and extensive volume,
>>pan,
>>>>>>and plugin automation over 24 tracks (a lot to crunch).
>>Being the
>>>>>>master pass, I needed to be able to hear it go down, and
>>indeed,
>>>>>>stopped the process twice for minor tweaks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm not sure what the difference is between having to listen
>>to a
>>>>>>real-time "confidence" bounce, or spending 40 minutes to
>>check
>>>>>>an instant bounce after the fact. Either way, you can be sure
>>I'm
>>>>>>going to listen to every second before I deliver it to a
client,
>>or
>>>>>>even use it as a pre-dub.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>DW
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Charles de Montebello wrote:
>>>>>>>>I had an engineer work on a project for me in my other
>>>>>>>>studio on Pro Tools (it's the one he knows) and, to my
>>>>>>>>horror, when I was getting ready to bounce the hour and
>>>>>>>>forty minute edit I discovered that Pro Tools bounces IN
>>>>>>>>REAL TIME???!!!! What the hell is that? Is this the dark
>>>>>>>>ages? What's the point of having a fast computer?
>>>>>>>>Anyway, I assume not all other DAWs are like that... Well,
>>>>>>>>at least Vegas isn't.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Just venting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Charles.

Dick_Withers wrote on 11/22/2000, 9:23 PM

I dig ; )

Charles de Montebello wrote:
>>Just to clarify -
>>It's not so much about being picky or not picky. I understand
your
>>point and I, myslef, couldn't be more picky about what I
release from
>>my studio. But, it just surprised me (at the time - 1:30am -
>>horrified me) that there wasn't at least an option to bounce
faster
>>than real-time. By the time I'm ready to bounce, I've already
checked
>>my worked and in a program such as Vegas where an hour
and a half
>>program takes about 7 minutes to bounce and another 9
minutes to burn
>>to CD, I have plenty of time to catch an error and re-bounce, if I
>>need to. If you're going to bounce in realtime, then you might
as
>>well just capture it to a real-time cd burner or DAT. But I charge
by
>>the hour and no client of mine is going to pay for an hour and
a half
>>of studio time to wait for me to mix down my edit - especially
when
>>I'm touting my studio as being state-of-the-art, fast, efficient
and
>>all-digital.
>>
>>So, in short, my argument (or point, actually) was not that Pro
Tools
>>sucks (which I would be an idiot to state - it's a fantastic
program
>>for most of the things I DON'T do) but more that I was shocked
that
>>in version 5 they still don't have an option to bounce using the
>>speed of the processor. It means I have to teach my
engineers a
>>different platform basically (which I'm happy to do)
>>
>>This should probably be taken off line now, anyway.
>>
>>thanks, Dick. :)
>>
>>Dick_Withers wrote:
>>>>
>>>>I can see, in your circumstances, how that could make a
>>>>difference. Around here, like most project studios, I AM the
QC
>>>>engineer (and the producer, arranger, session player,
>>>>nursemaid...). Still, I'm pretty picky about my work and
probably
>>>>wouldn't leave it to someone else, if I DID have that luxury.
But,
>>to
>>>>get to the main point, I pretty much doubt that Pro tool
bounces
>>>>are real-time, simply because of a technical inferiority to
Vegas.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Charles de Montebello wrote:
>>>>>>I agree with checking your work, of course. But on the
type of
>>>>>>project I'm talking about - just a lot of edits for an
audiobook -
>> I
>>>>>>want to be able to bouce and burn to CD so I can have a
qc
>>>>engineer
>>>>>>listen back. Wasting an hour and a half vs. 15 minutes
for
>>>>bounce and
>>>>>>burn is not my idea of time well spent in the studio...
>>>>Especially if
>>>>>>I've ALREADY checked my work. I still need to bounce it
to
>>>>burn a CD.
>>>>>>If they had CD burning directly from the program, that
would be
>>>>a
>>>>>>different story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Anyway, this isn't relevant to Vegas, I know, other than it
>>>>>>underscores Vegas' speed...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Dick_Withers wrote:
>>>>>>>>I guess it depends on your uses, whether or not
real-time
>>>>digital
>>>>>>>>bounce is horrifying. The last project I did included 22
>>>>RTAS
>>>>>>>>plugins, a very high density of edits, and extensive
volume,
>>>>pan,
>>>>>>>>and plugin automation over 24 tracks (a lot to crunch).
>>>>Being the
>>>>>>>>master pass, I needed to be able to hear it go down,
and
>>>>indeed,
>>>>>>>>stopped the process twice for minor tweaks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I'm not sure what the difference is between having to
listen
>>>>to a
>>>>>>>>real-time "confidence" bounce, or spending 40
minutes to
>>>>check
>>>>>>>>an instant bounce after the fact. Either way, you can be
sure
>>>>I'm
>>>>>>>>going to listen to every second before I deliver it to a
>>client,
>>>>or
>>>>>>>>even use it as a pre-dub.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>DW
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Charles de Montebello wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>I had an engineer work on a project for me in my
other
>>>>>>>>>>studio on Pro Tools (it's the one he knows) and, to
my
>>>>>>>>>>horror, when I was getting ready to bounce the hour
and
>>>>>>>>>>forty minute edit I discovered that Pro Tools
bounces IN
>>>>>>>>>>REAL TIME???!!!! What the hell is that? Is this the
dark
>>>>>>>>>>ages? What's the point of having a fast computer?
>>>>>>>>>>Anyway, I assume not all other DAWs are like that...
Well,
>>>>>>>>>>at least Vegas isn't.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Just venting.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Charles.