Problem burning on Dual Layer DVD with DVDA?

omar wrote on 7/31/2007, 6:27 PM
I am trying to burn on a dual layer DVD and DVDA gives the following error message 66% through the burn:

"A suitable layer break position could not be found. The layer break can be placed between titles and at chapter points and must occur within certain region of the DVD."

It then says: "Please insert chapter marker in title "WEDDING2" between "00:01:01.995" and "00:02:08.061"."

I added a chapter between those timecodes and it gave the same message again.
Is it possible to burn on a dual layer DVD?

Comments

Zendou wrote on 12/2/2007, 6:47 PM
I'm having same problem. Ever get an 'off-the-board' answer?
ECB wrote on 12/2/2007, 7:24 PM
Check and make sure you added the chapter point in the correct region and make sure you prepared the project again after you added the chapter point. See http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/forums/ShowMessage.asp?MessageID=562083&Replies=3
MPM wrote on 12/3/2007, 9:43 AM
FWIW Omar, I suggest the following as an optional method of getting a more professional-appearing result...

Since you have a time range, find the best spot for a split (little action & quiet audio) as close as possible to the mid-point -> then add a chapter there in DVDA. In extreme cases you can edit your title video/audio making sure an I frame occurs where you need it, and fading the audio in/out slightly. Render your project to hdd.

Open your new DVD on hdd in PgcEdit, select the title you intend to split, and Edit PGC... Go to the chapter you added for the layer break, click the chapter # to remove it, then as in the warning that will appear, remove the last chapter # so you don't have too many. This leaves you with a cell for the layer break, but no chapter. Save the DVD and create an ISO (directions if needed are at the PgcEdit site) that you can then burn with ImgBurn.

If you have multiple titles in your DVD project, you can also move them around in the project tree -- sometimes you can wind up with a title placed so that it starts close to the midpoint of the DVD, which make for the best layer break arrangement.

Why bother when all you have to do is set a chapter in DVDA? Well, a chapter is a point of interest, a place or scene that your viewer might jump to without fast forwarding -- a layer break in contrast should be the very opposite; a layer break should occur in the middle of the most inconsequential scene where a slight pause (on some players) will be noticed least. And practically speaking, the lower bit rate with little going on on the screen might help.
ECB wrote on 12/3/2007, 4:53 PM
Open your new DVD on hdd in PgcEdit, select the title you intend to split, and Edit PGC... Go to the chapter you added for the layer break, click the chapter # to remove it, then as in the warning that will appear, remove the last chapter # so you don't have too many. This leaves you with a cell for the layer break, but no chapter.

MPM, Deleting the chapter point and leaving the layer break is a slick idea. The added chapter point also throws all subsequent chapter numbers off by one including the scene selection menus if used.
Does deleting the chapter point and leaving the layer break violate any DVD specs? All the commercial DVDs layer breaks I have checked occur on a chapter point and DVDLab Pro sets the layer break and leaves the chapter point.

MPM wrote on 12/4/2007, 9:54 AM
"The added chapter point also throws all subsequent chapter numbers off by one including the scene selection menus if used. "

When you click/delete the chapt #, a message box appears in PgcEdit telling you where to go and delete/remove the now extra chapter number -- that way you don't have for example 23 chapters and a left over chapter number 24. When you save the modified DVD, PgcEdit will then do all the re-mapping etc. necessary so everything works out the way it should.

You need to add the chapter for the layer break because that's the only way in DVDA to create a cell -- you can do it after DVDA renders the DVD but *that* can get messy. If you add the chapter for the layer break dead last, just before rendering your DVD to hdd, any chapter menus and such will be off [on the DVD on your hdd] -- until you remove the extra layer break chapter in PgcEdit -- then everything will line back up and work like it did in DVDA -- before you added that last chapter for the layer break.

"Does deleting the chapter point and leaving the layer break violate any DVD specs? All the commercial DVDs layer breaks I have checked occur on a chapter point and DVDLab Pro sets the layer break and leaves the chapter point."

I guess I should say right off that to my knowledge it is not legal to reverse engineer or defeat any copy protection measures on a retail DVD...That said, check out the ripping forums, &/or post any questions re: how common something like chapters at Layer Break cells are... My impression is that for Hollywood movie releases they are exceedingly rare, if even present.

You probably have seen a lot of pro DVDs with chapters at layer breaks... DVDA and many other authoring programs only let you create a cell by creating a chapter, while retail movie DVDs out of Hollywood are normally authored using very high end software with more features. And not everyone wants to work with/on their DVD once it's rendered, or wants to learn how, plus I *think* that there are a lot of folks who for whatever reason won't visit the ripping forums or use their resources.

RE: Specs... For better or worse, those forums and resources are often one of the best sources of information and learning. The DVD spec you'll see here and there online is mostly a really, really good guess from reverse engineering -- the spec costs high dollars and comes with an NDA. And the spec doesn't matter as much as it might, because the player manufacturers don't stick to it 100%. [the chipsets mostly all come from the same pace geographically, and one not [ahem] always that friendly towards the DVD spec group ;-) ]

The way that I look at it is: Hollywood has more resources to check player compatibility than anyone else, & they have to do extensive testing 1) to ensure all their copy protection schemes work, & 2) because they could lose valuable retail shelf space if they had a lot of returns. If you do what Hollywood does, personally I figure that's about as safe as you can get, and far beyond any individual's abilities to test this stuff out.
and0nyx wrote on 6/11/2008, 8:49 AM
Thanks for that info, I created a burned disc that works perfectly well following your instructions.

But I need this to go to replication. How can I create a DDP 2.0 set of master files with images for layer 0 and layer . I can't use DVD A now, can PGCEdit do this? For this replicator, I need to send two DVD-R's one with the image file for each layer.

Your help is greatly appreciated.
MPM wrote on 6/12/2008, 3:08 PM
Unfortunately there's not a lot of alternatives when it comes to DDP... Gear is widely used, but expensive - you might find these links interesting.

http://forum.digital-digest.com/showthread.php?t=87175&goto=nextnewest
http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/145/860430
MPM wrote on 6/13/2008, 9:21 AM
In case it's useful to anyone...

You ***Might*** be able to use DVDA to produce DDP file sets from edited DVDs... When you prepare the ddp set, DVDA uses the VIDEO_TS folder on your hdd that you already prepared in DVDA. You have to remove any PGCEdit backup folder in VIDEO_TS, and it won't work in cases like this thread where you want to set the LB to a cell, but not a chapter -- DVDA *Only* looks for chapters when it asks you to specify the Layer Break, so while it uses the edited IFO with one less chapter, you can't choose that cell for the LB.

Also, while DDP is a (BS) relic, it's relatively simple - you can open the main DAT files in ISO Buster for example. I don't think it would be that hard for someone more technically skilled to come up with software or methods to edit DDP images -- or in my case someone much, much, MUCH more technically skilled. ;-)