Problem with .avi file/project with SMPTE #'s burnt in

efiebke wrote on 12/19/2003, 11:18 AM
I took a 5 minute long project, used the SMPTE plug-in to generate SMPTE numbers (29.97 drop frame) and rendered the project containing these numbers on each frame (rendering it to an .avi file). I did this so that I can have (and consistant) points of reference for musical scoring. I utilize another program for this (Steinberg's SX) which has excellent midi recording functions.

Here's the problem.

Whenever I try to place this particular rendered file using the Vegas 4.0e program, the computer chokes up. . . it freezes big time.

What is wierd about this is that if I play the exact project that does NOT contain any rendered SMPTE numbers, everything works perfectly.

I've duplicated this problem a couple of times using this particular 5+ minute long project. So, it doesn't appear that the ".avi" file itself is bad or corrupted. This problem occurs no matter what playback setting I use within the Vegas 4 program (Draft, Preview, Good, Best, etc.)

This same .avi file used with the Steinberg SX program works just fine.

And everthing is accurate on both programs. If I stop the play back on 01:23;15. . . it stops there perfectly. But the Vegas program won't play back the entire file without choking.

ANY ideas as to what the problem may be????? Is there a known bug using the SMPTE plug-in and a video project and rendering it to its own ".avi" file????? NOTE: NO video or audio effects are used during this. It's a simple ".avi" file with rendered SMPTE numbers being played back on the Vegas program.

I don't experience any kind of computer choking on any other projects (so far). Some projects are full of video and audio effects including video pans and zooms. In other words, it doesn't seem to be my aging Pentium III computer. And if I utilize the SMPTE plug in to this same project, there are NO problems prior to rendering it!!! Wierd!!!

Here's my computer set-up:

*Dell Pentium III 733 mhz, Precision Workstation 420
*Two internal 7200 ATA-66 drives.
*One external Firewire-based 7200 ATA-100 drive used only for video (using the FireVue Smart casing and Western Digital 120 GB drive)
*1 GB ram
*Windows XP Pro (updated and optimized as best can be for audio/video)

Like I said. . . I don't experience any kind of computer choking on any other type of video projects using the Vegas program (so far). . . except for a file rendered with SMPTE numbers.

Wierd.

Thank you ahead of time :)

Ted

Comments

Liam_Vegas wrote on 12/19/2003, 11:43 AM
How (what template) did you render that AVI file with the SMPTE? DId you use the default NTSC DV AVI format or something else? Just trying to see if there is anything different in the format of the video in those AVI files.

Are the two AVI files on different drives?

When you say your system "freezes big time"... do you have to re-boot... or just wait a while and your system comes back?

The answers to these questions may indicate some hardware issue is going on with your firewire drives (dpending on the asnwers of course).

And by the way... I do this all the time (render a DV AVI file with embedded timecode)... so I know there is no inherant bug in doing this (and some of those resulting files have been 1.5 hours long). I send these to clients so they can identify clips to get a rough cut from it.

efiebke wrote on 12/19/2003, 12:11 PM
I rendered the AVI file with numbers generated by the SMPTE (time code) plug-in. I used the default NTSC DV AVI format. It's the same setting that I always use.

The pre and post SMTPE number generated avi files are on the same drive. The external firewire-based set-up.

My system freezes. . . but all I have to do is wait several seconds and everything comes back online.

Honestly, this is the first time that I've done this. . . rendered a DV AVI file with embedded timecode and play THAT file back on the Vegas program. Like I said, it works just fine with the Steinberg SX program (of course I have minimal allocated memory for video on the SX program so the video playback is small. . . but effective!).

I do have a new external Firewire-based hard disk casing. It's a "Fire Vue" casing with an Ultra ATA-100,7200 Western Digital hard drive inside. Could the problem be the case and/or hard drive??? My Firewire card is made by SIIG.

Hope this is helpful!

Thank you, by the way, for responding to my post.

Ted
SonyEPM wrote on 12/19/2003, 2:09 PM
Sounds like a 1394 drive problem. Try moving the file to an internal ide drive- I bet it plays back perfectly.
Liam_Vegas wrote on 12/19/2003, 2:23 PM
As SonyEPM says... it sounds like the dreaded "firewire video/audio freeze" issue. Discussed many times on this forum and many others. DO a search for "firewire freeze" or something like that, get a coffee, make yourself comfortable and start reading the posts.

The short answer is... that for those of us that experienced it... the solution was to get a new firewire drive and/or get a new firewire card. I think the problems have more to do with the firewire "bridge" unit in the external drive housing... the issues were not related to the specific IDE drives uses.

Since I started to use a different make of firewire drives I no longer have the problem.
efiebke wrote on 12/19/2003, 2:33 PM
What firewire drives do you recommend???

(I just purchased this one. The previous one, and ADS Technologies external Firewire based HD enclosure was slowly "passing away" on me).

Ted
Liam_Vegas wrote on 12/19/2003, 2:40 PM
Read this
efiebke wrote on 12/19/2003, 2:57 PM
I read your posts and the firewire enclosures that you use. Thanks!

By the way, I copied the SMPTE number encoded AVI file to an internal drive. It worked flowlessly.

Played back the same file from the Firewire enclosure. . . AGAIN. . . and it hiccupped again. What also remains consistant is that I play the original AVI file (WITHOUT the rendered SMPTE numbers) and THAT file worked flowlessly as well from the Firewire HD.

This is why I am so perplexed. Basically when I play two near identical files (with the only difference being that one file has SMTPE numbers on it), one works and the other doesn't. Really freakin' wierd.

Up until know I've concentrated on doing the videos on firewire-based external enclosures. Maybe I need to rethink this and look into IDE based internal (and hopefully swapable) hard disks for the video editing.

Humph. . . .

Thank you for your time and expertise! :)

Ted
Liam_Vegas wrote on 12/19/2003, 3:11 PM
Glad to have been of some help. Once you find a hard drive enclosure that works... you'll be a lot happier... although working with internal drives (even ones in a removable module) will work just fine as well.
Spot|DSE wrote on 12/19/2003, 4:49 PM
Odd....I'd highly doubt it's related to the timecode overlay either...
Here, we use the ADS drives, just got a few of their new Firewire 800 enclosures with USB2.0 on it too. Very nice.
The Drive Kit's don't 'slowly die', your drive might be having problems, but the drive kits either work or they don't. The Oxford chipset doesn't do grey areas, either it works or it doesn't.
Also, be sure your Firewire cable isn't threaded around an AC cable. This has been shown to cause interruptions in process. I learned this the hard way, I took one of my firewire cables and braided it with 2 AC cables for my travel kit. Firewire was sporadic. According to spec, this shouldn't be a problem to do, but practice vs theory proved otherwise.
efiebke wrote on 12/19/2003, 5:49 PM
Spot -

I think it's odd too.

The firewire cable is short and not threaded around any electrical power line.

I'm saving my older ADS Technology External HD case. Sometime when I have the time I'll transplant a new HD drive into it and see what happens. Maybe it is the drive that's going for that particualr set-up.

I've only been using the new Fire Vue External SMART HD case with the Western Digital 120 GB drive for a few days now. That one particular file is the only one causing me headaches and concern for this firewire product. It has the new Oxford chipset too (and I haven't the slightest clue what that is all about, to be very honest with you!).

Any how. . . I've started researching into IDE based swappable hard drive kits. I came across this site on the Google.com search:

http://www.trillora.com/pc-parts-hard-drive-mobile-racks.html

The products seem inexpensive. Ever hear of Kingwin HD swappable products?

Here's more info: http://www.trillora.com/kw-kf-201-df.html

Just sharing some found information. . . .

With warm gratitude for all of your input! :)

Ted